Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)

[Mira]

Mira:  Perhaps my word choices were poor.  I didn't mean to imply anything nefarious.  Everyone one here is pretty nice.  I'm enjoying the opportunity to discuss DF. 

I too went back reread Christmas eve shortly after the sample chapters started being posted.  I'm concerned about her lack of mention and Thomas's lack of mention.  I like them both.

  Most likely it was me miss understanding, if you mean the Christmas Eve story was messing with us?  I don't think so, it is a real subtle piece of writing, overtly we have Harry struggling to put together a bike for Maggie.  That makes me laugh because a child's bike shouldn't be that hard to assemble, usually they can be purchased already put together, or the bike shop will do it.  It is something any parent can identify with, the dreaded, "some assembly required" on the box.

From there though it gets strange, we find out that Christmas Eve takes place after the next two books, there is going to be a lot of blood, guts, and death..  There is the usual Harry guilt over such things whether he could have prevented it or not.  But here is where it gets subtle, there is an air of grieving about Harry, he doing Christmas for his little girl but he is in lots of pain.  Not just for the thousands in my opinion but for someone very close who he has lost.  The big three are, Eb,Thomas, and Murphy, going by the trailer for Peace Talks, one or all three could very well not survive.. What confirms he is grieving a personal loss to me is how Kringle, a Christmas memory of his father, Molly's gentle sisterly kiss, and Mab, Mab of all people consulting Sarissa about a Christmas gift for Harry, even if it was to his daughter.. No, nothing overtly said that one of the three are dead, but at the same time you know one of them is.  Yet, the whole story is sweet and kind of cheery, Maggie gets to meet Santa!

[vultur]

I can't really see Eb surviving the series, but I don't know if this is the point where he will get killed. It seems likely that Harry will get the Blackstaff when Eb dies, and Jim might be saving that for the BAT.

[Mira]

I can't really see Eb surviving the series, but I don't know if this is the point where he will get killed. It seems likely that Harry will get the Blackstaff when Eb dies, and Jim might be saving that for the BAT.

Yup he is one of the big three that given the trailer could die in the next two books..

[peregrine]

I don't think Eb is going to die until a book after he finds out Thomas is also his grandson.  Just from a storytelling standpoint, I think Jim wants to give us at least a book's worth of status quo to show how he handles it.

[Walter the skull]

Yeah I would like to Eb live long enough to see how he and Thomas get along.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think Luccio will die, maybe at Harry’s hands, maybe at the hands of Murphy I also think Murphy will die but it won’t take. I think Luccio is complicit in the scheme to take Harry down, orchestrated by the Merlin. I think the trailer is misdirection to some degree, as are the earlier chapter drops.

[Mira]

I think Luccio will die, maybe at Harry’s hands, maybe at the hands of Murphy I also think Murphy will die but it won’t take. I think Luccio is complicit in the scheme to take Harry down, orchestrated by the Merlin. I think the trailer is misdirection to some degree, as are the earlier chapter drops.

I think there will be some of that, but I think most will die at the end of Battle Ground.. Because it is
a Titian he is facing Harry is going to be forced to take on godlike power to defeat her, so he will be forced to invoke the Darkhallow, and that is going to kill/hurt a lot of people along with the Titian. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I love the mispelling “Clash of the Titian’s “ ”Talented artist Tiziano Vecelli, must defend his name and reputation against an equally talented forger of fine art.”

 I think I saw it on an art channel once. If not someone should make it.

A lot will die and Harry will have to make hideous choices to save the people of Chicago. In killing the Red Court Harry killed Ramps and some old half vampires, Harry was okay with that, it was Susan which damaged him. The Fomor use modified Human Servitors, he will be killing mortals with magic, some probably press ganged and he may not be okay with that. Trying to remember if he has killed servitors before in Skin Game.

[tothePAIN]

Has anyone else commented on the fact that Christmas Eve spoils the plot about Harry no longer being on the White Council?

I reread Christmas Eve and Harry, when encountered with the challenges of putting together the bike for Maggie, notes to himself and/or Mounse that a Wizard of the White Council would not be defeated by such an obstacle.

[EBRIEN]

Has anyone else commented on the fact that Christmas Eve spoils the plot about Harry no longer being on the White Council?

I reread Christmas Eve and Harry, when encountered with the challenges of putting together the bike for Maggie, notes to himself and/or Mounse that a Wizard of the White Council would not be defeated by such an obstacle.

This is curious to me...being on the White Council. Harry's on it. A member. But we believe he's gonna be booted off it. Cowl has WC-level power--Harry speaks to this in DB or one of the later books.

Makes me wonder how many WC-level wizards are wandering around the world because they didn't play nice with the WC.

Elaine is one. What about others like Elaine? I'd think there'd have to be some.
Was Molly ever officially a member? Or just in training?
Warlocks that don't go..ummm...Warlock?

I mean..there are 8 billion people in the world. Even the smallest of percentages gotta add up to more.

Just a thought.

Happy Monday!

Brien

[Mira]

Has anyone else commented on the fact that Christmas Eve spoils the plot about Harry no longer being on the White Council?

I reread Christmas Eve and Harry, when encountered with the challenges of putting together the bike for Maggie, notes to himself and/or Mounse that a Wizard of the White Council would not be defeated by such an obstacle.

What he said was putting a child's bike together "should be no match for the intellect of a member of the White Council."  Which speaks more to his frustration I think, rather than him no longer being a member of the Council.

    defeated by such an obstacle.


This is curious to me...being on the White Council. Harry's on it. A member. But we believe he's gonna be booted off it. Cowl has WC-level power--Harry speaks to this in DB or one of the later books.

Actually I doubt that that will happen, if it does I think it will only be for a short while.  After the Titian gets done, there might not be many left to have a White Council.

Elaine hid her talent, she never was a member to begin with.  Molly never made full wizard status.  Mort also hid his talent from the Council.  I believe the Council takes a very dim view of strong wizards not being members, not good for the health.

[tothePAIN]

What he said was putting a child's bike together "should be no match for the intellect of a member of the White Council."  Which speaks more to his frustration I think, rather than him no longer being a member of the Council.
Actually I doubt that that will happen

My point exactly. Given Christmas Eve, I do not expect Harry to lose his status as a member of the White Council.

[Arjan]

My point exactly. Given Christmas Eve, I do not expect Harry to lose his status as a member of the White Council.

The only way to throw them out is either saying he is not a wizard, they tried that and it would be rather absurd to try it now, or saying he is not human anymore. No reason for that either.

They could declare him warlock for some reason but then they have to hunt and kill him. That would result in a different Christmas’s.

Apart from that it makes no sense to throw him out because that is giving up their influence with nothing in return and I don’t think it is even legally possible for them.

[tothePAIN]

It might not make a ton of sense but power politics doesn't have to make sense. It's also the plot introduced in chapter 3 of Peace Talks - Harry potentially losing his status as a member of the White Council.

[Arjan]

It might not make a ton of sense but power politics doesn't have to make sense. It's also the plot introduced in chapter 3 of Peace Talks - Harry potentially losing his status as a member of the White Council.

It almost always makes sense in some way. In this case it is a prelude before killing him.