Author Topic: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)  (Read 19422 times)

Offline CaptMurphy

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« on: July 06, 2020, 08:49:31 PM »
I recently read the Christmas Eve short story, after rereading the whole of the series.
One thing stands out to me, the lack of Karrin Murphy in the Christmas Eve story. Harry and her began a new relationship in Skin Game, they kissed, they were now "an item"
She's not there with Harry on Christmas Eve, this strikes me as odd. I have a theory, and it's not her being one of the dead.
I have always felt that her story echoes Harry's. Things happen to Harry and similar things happen to her later on. Both lose swords of the cross, both get injured and will never be the same physically again etc.
I wonder, and this is my theory, that among the many funerals that Molly paid for, was a funeral for Fix, that he dies and that the mantel of Summer Knight ends up on Karrin Murphy.
That just as Harry and Karrin get together, something else happens to keep them apart. That it would never be allowed for the Knights of Summer and Winter to be intimate. This of course would give Harry an extra push to find a way to rid himself of the mantle, which, as stated by Odin in Cold Days, "Many, many mantles are worn — or discarded — on Halloween night, wizard."
Any thoughts?

Offline Serack

  • Special Collections Division
  • Posty McPostington
  • ****
  • Posts: 7745
  • WoJ Rock Star!
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2020, 02:47:53 PM »
Bump because this took days to approve
DF WoJ Compilation
Green is my curator voice.
Name dropping "Serack" in a post /will/ draw my attention to it

*gnaws on the collar of his special issue Beta Foo long-sleeved jacket*

Offline Walter the skull

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2020, 02:59:41 PM »
Welcome to the forums Capt Murphy!

This has been discussed a little bit around here.  It's not the craziest theory.  I hope to see Murphy join some sort of government task force that deals with the supernatural, but the summer knight theory is definitely plausible. 
 

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2020, 04:13:19 PM »
Harry finally got laid, which means his happiness is bound to be transitory. Jim loves setting Harry up for a romantic fall.

Snakeboy’s death curse “die alone!” Will probably mean Harry will never have a long-term romantic relationship. Still, in spite of tremendous bad luck with the ladies and a death curse, Harry STILL has a better love life than Ramirez. Poor Ramirez. Poor, poor Ramirez.

The Faustian pact has already been raised by Jim in Peace Talks, and Murphy has already had an offer from Monoc, so we might see a very short Valkyrie, and her duties making it impossible to continue a relationship with Harry. She will look at Harry and know when he is slated to die.

Online Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24367
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2020, 06:38:38 PM »
Quote

Snakeboy’s death curse “die alone!” Will probably mean Harry will never have a long-term romantic relationship. Still, in spite of tremendous bad luck with the ladies and a death curse, Harry STILL has a better love life than Ramirez. Poor Ramirez. Poor, poor Ramirez.

As Malcolm told Harry, paraphrasing, "everyone dies alone."  We may have family around us, but we walk through that final door solo. 

So, if Christmas Eve does indeed take place after Peace Talks/Battleground and Murphy isn't present, which considering the events that seem to be happening in the chapter five drop, she should be...

So here is what is possibly the reasons why she wasn't;
   
1]  Murphy re-injured herself big time and is in the hospital.
 2]  Murphy made a Faustian bargain to get into the fight, and alienated herself in the process from Harry.
  3]  Harry made a Faustian bargain to cure Murphy and alienated himself from her.
4]  Somehow whoever it is that was trying to frame Harry and Murphy succeeded.  While Harry got
off because of his various connections, Murphy couldn't or may have even take the fall for Harry and is serving 15 years to life in prison for murder.
   5]  Murphy finds out that she will be crippled for life and wants to go through it solo, her way.
    6]  While it is possible she became Summer Knight, I don't see that fact keeping her away at
Christmas.  Don't think Sarissa would demand that of her,  Titania might, but it would have to be really important.
    7]  Murphy was killed.

Offline Wrane

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2020, 07:16:22 PM »
I don't think Murph can take the Summer Knight mantle;  one of the prerequisites was a bond with someone close in the court of the faeries.  Murph doesn't have one.

Online Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24367
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2020, 07:29:27 PM »


   Just reread Christmas Eve.   The blurb before it Jim says originally he was going to make it after Skin Game, but changed it to after Peace Talks/Battleground and warned of spoiler implications..

Here is what I got out of it reading it again...

Michael knows now what Molly is, he is sad about it but accepting it is what it is.   

On the subject of death and the lasting image of blood on the asphalt, lots of death, but I believe that is a reference to a specific death.  Given the depth of Harry's sorrow, the efforts of both Mab[for her] and Kringle to bring cheer and comfort, yeah, wouldn't be surprised if Murphy was dead, maybe Thomas and Eb as well... If not all three, at least one of them does die...  Good news, little Maggie and Mouse survive.

Offline vultur

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3942
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2020, 09:03:02 PM »
I don't think "Christmas Eve" requires that Harry and Murphy's relationship end, just that they're not living together.

Snakeboy’s death curse “die alone!” Will probably mean Harry will never have a long-term romantic relationship.

I think that curse is resolved, with Harry's death alone on the boat at the end of Changes.

Summer Knight for Murphy is quite possible, given that from CD the Summer Knight is a protector, not an assassin. But it still doesn't feel quite right to me. And as Mira said, I'm not sure being SK would have prevented Murphy being there.

I'm not sure her being a Valkyrie would be an issue for Harry and Murphy. Odin isn't at odds with Winter.

The implication of Murphy being dead seems too obvious to be true (although maybe that is just wishful thinking). I'm leaning toward Jim's 'Murphy's funeral' comment being a technically-true-but-misleading one like 'Harry knowing who to offer the swords to' in SmF.

IE, Murphy's death is faked (possibly to join some super-secret government organization that deals with the supernatural, possibly because she's wanted for murder and needs to disappear).

Online Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24367
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2020, 09:45:28 PM »
Quote
The implication of Murphy being dead seems too obvious to be true (although maybe that is just wishful thinking). I'm leaning toward Jim's 'Murphy's funeral' comment being a technically-true-but-misleading one like 'Harry knowing who to offer the swords to' in SmF.

  Not going by that, it is the grief, the PTSD imagery,  the flashback Harry has of "blood on the asphalt."  Now yes, he could be simply seeing the aftermath of the whole battlefield, however I don't think so.  Say what you want about Mab, but she was attempting what is for her an act of kindness.  She knows Harry wouldn't accept anything from her, so she gave a gift to Maggie on the suggestion of Sarissa.  Kringle also went out of his way to give Harry a meaningful gift, one from a happy innocent time.  All of that adds up to a death or deaths of significance to Harry.  I can think of three people not present in the story that could bring him that kind of sorrow, Eb, Thomas, and Murphy.  From the trailer alone one of them or all three of them maybe dead.  Now intriguing, aside from the music, what was the "power" that Maggie would have for a few hours?  Now could she bring back one of the dead?
Quote
I'm not sure her being a Valkyrie would be an issue for Harry and Murphy. Odin isn't at odds with Winter.

She still would be dead,  that may be an issue for both of them.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2020, 10:40:06 PM »
If Murphy goes Valkyrie her life will be as much as her own as Harry’s is as the Winter knight i.e. not at all.

Online Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24367
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2020, 01:47:53 AM »
If Murphy goes Valkyrie her life will be as much as her own as Harry’s is as the Winter knight i.e. not at all.

She cannot be one, she isn't a virgin and she is a mortal.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 01:54:30 AM by Mira »

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2020, 06:51:27 AM »
She cannot be one, she isn't a virgin and she is a mortal.
Gard starts laughing (read Heorot again)



WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Online Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24367
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2020, 11:12:49 AM »
Gard starts laughing (read Heorot again)
Perhaps, and I am aware of that,  I read the story, just going by the classic definition of what one is.  However consider since Kringle paid a visit, you think he'd have allowed Murphy to be with Harry on Christmas Eve considering how down he seems to be.  No, more likely Gard was recruiting her to be a Einherjar, which is a dead warrior who works for/with Odin.  They dwell in Valhalla, eat and drink, and are healed of their wounds.  When the final battle for the Cosmos comes, they join him in the fight.. So if Murphy is killed and becomes one, we most likely will see her in the BAT.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2020, 12:05:54 PM »
It fairly obvious, on Christmas Eve as the new girl Murphy has to accompany Kringle on his duties wearing the Elf costume. It actually fits her, which means she would be in the foulest of moods. This is why Gard wanted to recruit her in the first place, she hated that too small costume, and would never have to wear it again.

A cogent lesson in Faustian pacts, read the small print.

Online Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24367
    • View Profile
Re: Christmas Eve and Peace Talks theory (spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2020, 12:53:32 PM »
It fairly obvious, on Christmas Eve as the new girl Murphy has to accompany Kringle on his duties wearing the Elf costume. It actually fits her, which means she would be in the foulest of moods. This is why Gard wanted to recruit her in the first place, she hated that too small costume, and would never have to wear it again.

A cogent lesson in Faustian pacts, read the small print.

I thought it was the hat she didn't like.. ::)