Author Topic: Chapter 5 Drop  (Read 32810 times)

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #105 on: July 05, 2020, 05:20:30 AM »
Yes, it's so much better for her to die than change.  Truly, you have Murphy's best interests at heart when you push over and over for her to die.
We don’t need character development, we need battle scenes and when Harry at last finds some love we need to have her killed as soon as possible with much blood and loud fireworks. Especially when she is so bloody minded to have her own opinion about things and worst of all about Harry.

Won’t happen. It is clear that Karen is here to stay. Mirror Mirror is not about parallel worlds, it is all about the wedding dress. They want to marry but Harry’s knighthood is complicating things and Harry wants Uriel to officiate the marriage. Molly and Mab have their own ideas about the whole affair and it gets terribly complicated.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24378
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #106 on: July 05, 2020, 07:09:33 AM »
Yes, it's so much better for her to die than change.  Truly, you have Murphy's best interests at heart when you push over and over for her to die.

I don't want her to die, but at the same time for years one of the main reasons he fans love her is she is a strong vanilla character.  Michael is too, but he has had the help of the Almighty and a Holy Sword.  As a normal biologically speaking vanilla human, Murphy is going to get older, at forty unless you are a wizard you begin to lose a step or two, you don't heal as fast as you did.  Who knows age may have been a factor in how badly Nic was able to beat her up.  That might not have happened to the Murphy of five years ago.  I quite liked her as a cop, but since she has been off the force Jim has struggled to find the right slot for her.  Nobody seems to like the idea of the middle aged Murphy getting older, so suddenly her fans are bringing forth all these supernatural solutions for her to continue as the rock um sock um Murphy who pulls Harry's chestnuts out of the fire.  Fine, but as I said, then she is no longer Murphy.  If that is what everyone wants, fine, or let her go out in a blaze of glory and remain, Murphy.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #107 on: July 05, 2020, 07:47:41 AM »
People get older and they adapt, they change. Sometimes illness or other health problems accelerate that but it is there for all of us. I want to read how she adapts because she is not just an action doll you first tear a leg off and then throw into the garbage bin. She is also, as we have seen in Ghost Story, a leading figure in the paranet which is going to play some role in the next two books.

WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24378
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #108 on: July 05, 2020, 11:19:21 AM »
People get older and they adapt, they change. Sometimes illness or other health problems accelerate that but it is there for all of us. I want to read how she adapts because she is not just an action doll you first tear a leg off and then throw into the garbage bin. She is also, as we have seen in Ghost Story, a leading figure in the paranet which is going to play some role in the next two books.

  No, she is not, we haven't heard much about her paranet role since Ghost Story.   

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #109 on: July 05, 2020, 11:50:27 AM »
  No, she is not, we haven't heard much about her paranet role since Ghost Story.
That is because we did not hear that much about the paranet period. There is no reason to believe she is not involved anymore, that we probably would have heard.

Similarly she must have some sort of job or source of income, we did not hear about that either. We will probably hear something about it in the next two books.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Walter the skull

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #110 on: July 05, 2020, 11:51:04 AM »
I actually don't believe Murphy will die. 

Some times bad things happen to good people.  At some point, if Murphy wants to remain in the fight, she will need to find a new way to fight.   

It might be a new noncombat role.  Murphy has a lot of knowledge and experience dealing with the supernatural.  In the Dresden verse, knowledge is actually power.  Even injured, Murphy can still be powerful.

Now if Murphy wants to keep fighting the way she has in the past, and if she wants to spend more of her life with Harry, then she may need to to become something different than she is. 

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24378
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #111 on: July 05, 2020, 01:36:17 PM »
That is because we did not hear that much about the paranet period. There is no reason to believe she is not involved anymore, that we probably would have heard.

Similarly she must have some sort of job or source of income, we did not hear about that either. We will probably hear something about it in the next two books.

  She may have been given some kind of pension because of her service as a police officer.  Hasn't she been doing "security work" of some kind both for Vadderung and even for Marcone?  Maybe not directly but indirectly?  All I am saying is Jim has been toying with different ideas for her ever since he demoted her then ultimately got her fired.  None of them so far has worked so well as was what she started with.  That is why I actually think the best thing would be to make her a police chief.  She can do that and have a degree of physical impairment, it is the work she is really fitted for.  It could set her up to fight corruption, i.e. Marcone's influence, which would put her in conflict with a lot of characters including Harry because of Mab's support of Marcone.  It would also have her being in support of Harry and giving him access to information a lot like she did when she was a police officer.

Offline Regenbogen

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1241
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #112 on: July 05, 2020, 02:23:47 PM »
... or get her into the FBI. I mean, since agent Tilly was introduced in Changes, he wasn't seen since then. He is an acquaintance who could at least get her some kind of liaison status with the FBI, maybe leading to membership in the future.

Offline SpacedCowboy

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #113 on: July 05, 2020, 03:52:25 PM »
As a normal biologically speaking vanilla human, Murphy is going to get older, at forty unless you are a wizard you begin to lose a step or two, you don't heal as fast as you did.  Who knows age may have been a factor in how badly Nic was able to beat her up.  That might not have happened to the Murphy of five years ago.

I realize this is canon and widely accepted, but it’s not necessarily true.

When I was 20, I was riding a motorbike down the Lea Bridge Rd in London. A nice wide road, approaching a car waiting in the central reservation for me to pass. I was doing about 25mph (There was a speed camera set at 30 just ahead). Just as I approached the car, it suddenly turned across my path. I’ll spare you the full details, but my right leg was twisted beyond it’s capacity, both lower leg bones were broken, and the flesh around my knee had an 18” tear in it - the Dr. said my leg just burst open at the knee. I do clearly remember flexing the muscles in my thigh and watching them in action. I also remember wishing I had a camera because this was so cool. Yeah. Totally in shock :)

Eight months later, and after a fair amount of physical therapy, I’m as good as new. Now fast-forward 25 years, and I’m in the US riding an e-bike at about the same speed (25mph) down a bike lane. You can see where this is going...

So a lady is waiting to turn into a side road, doesn’t look (or doesn’t judge the speed I’m going very well) and turns across my path. I have time for “Oh shi” and .... we have impact. This time, my head and elbow break the windscreen (breaking my arm in the process), and my leg deforms the side of the car, breaking my right femur as it hits.

It took about the same amount of time (7 months) to fully heal. Just like before, it takes about 8 weeks to get some agency back, and then it just gets steadily better until it’s healed. It was complicated this time by me having about 60% of my body heavily bruised, which is a totally different thing (fluid sloshing around and gathering in places) than getting a small bruise. Still, even at 45 I recovered just fine given time. There’s no difference between either leg these days and it’s now 6 years later so I’ve had time for fallout to appear.

Summing up:
  • As far as I’m aware, even as a Brit, I don’t trace my heritage to Merlin :) Human bodies are pretty good at repairing themselves even as you get older.
  • That said, wear a bike helmet if you’re cycling, there was a girl arrived in ER before me wearing a climbing helmet when a car hit her. She died from head trauma. I didn’t even have a headache (although the cycle helmet was destroyed.)
  • Mouse is obviously way more awesome than a vanilla human, he doesn’t need the months for recuperation.
  • I really don’t have anything against my right leg, honest.
  • I don’t ride anything that doesn’t have a cage of steel around me now. I think twice is sufficient, three times might be pushing my luck.

So sure, Murphy could recover if that’s what Jim wants to do; she could also have “complications” and she gets forced to take a different path, or suffer further consequences if she doesn’t. My only point is that speaking as one whom life has tried in this fashion, injury doesn’t *have* to mean permanent life changes. My own gut feeling is that when an author writes injury into a character’s arc there’s a reason for that, so I doubt she’ll be as fortunate as I, but it’s still Jim’s choice.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 04:01:25 PM by SpacedCowboy »

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24378
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #114 on: July 05, 2020, 06:07:56 PM »
Quote
So sure, Murphy could recover if that’s what Jim wants to do; she could also have “complications” and she gets forced to take a different path, or suffer further consequences if she doesn’t. My only point is that speaking as one whom life has tried in this fashion, injury doesn’t *have* to mean permanent life changes. My own gut feeling is that when an author writes injury into a character’s arc there’s a reason for that, so I doubt she’ll be as fortunate as I, but it’s still Jim’s choice.

Which is appears he wants because she went from 90% probable recovery to something that sounds like a lot less.  I am happy for you and your recovery, yeah, older people recover from illness and injury all of the time.  However most doctors will tell you the body doesn't respond at forty something like it did at twenty something.  Also what you do with your body over the years counts as well.  It sounds like Murphy is dealing with severe joint injuries, as a competitive athlete in hand to hand combat, she has put severe strain on them over the years.  Athletics is healthy and important, but it is also hard on the body, lots of athletes her age begin to suffer from arthritis from repeated strain.. The cartilage  in her shoulder and knee could be shot, she has suffered a nasty injury to the latter in the past.   I still don't understand why they want to do what sounds like repeated operations on her knee?  When knee replacement surgery is getting better and better and very effective.

Offline Dina

  • Has Collapsed Into a Singularity of Posts (a.k.a, "The Dina")
  • ***
  • Posts: 105537
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #115 on: July 05, 2020, 06:14:50 PM »
I believe real life injuries (and healing practices) have nothing to do with JB story. He has a plan for Murphy and he probably needs her to hit a physical and emotional low.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Regenbogen

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1241
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #116 on: July 05, 2020, 06:35:34 PM »
I believe real life injuries (and healing practices) have nothing to do with JB story. He has a plan for Murphy and he probably needs her to hit a physical and emotional low.

Yes! So that she decides to take a coin  ;). Which after a while she will be able to give it up, probably with Harry's help, and go the redemption road.

Offline peregrine

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 8736
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #117 on: July 05, 2020, 09:36:32 PM »
Yes! So that she decides to take a coin  ;). Which after a while she will be able to give it up, probably with Harry's help, and go the redemption road.
No, Harry will just be forced to kill her.  Because she wouldn't be able to live with herself.  You know.  For Murphy's sake.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #118 on: July 05, 2020, 10:50:31 PM »
On a different note, the accountant would have had to be alive when the gang entered the vault.  At least as far as the police are concerned. The body is going to have a different expired by date unless somebody pays off the medical examiner. Has this been mentioned?
He was in a store where Harry used a bunch of ice magic. That might affect estimated time of death. Also, time of death is an estimate that gets less and less accurate as time goes on.

That is what Kringle said in Skin Game but he can see it being moved between those places so I think Nicodemus suspect or knows it is on the island.
He can't see it being moved if it's in a bag or other container.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 5 Drop
« Reply #119 on: July 06, 2020, 01:57:05 AM »
It doesn't matter.  Harry will not be visiting a state or federal prison before the BAT. ;)