Author Topic: Weird? Pretty much.  (Read 358261 times)

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1620 on: July 20, 2022, 10:23:58 PM »
Well, happy friendship day to you too :D
I think I've mentioned before how much I dislike translations. Once my English improved enough that I didn't need the dictionary 10 times in every page (that was before Google), I switched to originals and never looked back.
Sorry about your veggies, Regen. But 36 isn't that hot.. What kind of veggies do you have?
Radishes and carrots and some stuff I don't remember what I put in there, lol. Doesn't matter, because the first leaves got eaten by the slugs, now it is too hot for slugs. The rest just didn't grow properly. That's when the radishes get the wrong shape and if you try to eat them it feels like wood. As if they were in there too long but they are extremely tiny.
But now I have put new ones out and I can already see their greens.

36 is hot for me, lol. But we already mentioned this ;)

Offline Fcrate

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1621 on: July 20, 2022, 11:19:43 PM »
I know we talked about this, but not relative to summer veggies. And yes, 36 is too hot for carrots. I don't know about radishes. Never tried them.
My uncle is here visiting, he lives in the US. My sister asked me for some seeds that I'll send to her with him. Egyptian eggplant (smaller than the US variety) and bell peppers, some leafy greens and mint.
You've mentioned your slug problem before. If you don't want a chemical solution, then know that plants can survive them. It's quite possible if you fertilize heavily enough, though you have to be careful not to "burn" the plants with too much fertilizer at once.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline Dina

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1622 on: July 21, 2022, 02:49:42 AM »
Thank you for your wishes for the Friends' Day!

I am not a fan of Changes, mainly due to my hate for the "secret child" cliché. Of course, I love many parts of it, Jim is an excellent writer and I love Harry. :)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Arjan

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1623 on: July 22, 2022, 03:37:29 AM »
Well, happy friendship day to you too :D
I think I've mentioned before how much I dislike translations. Once my English improved enough that I didn't need the dictionary 10 times in every page (that was before Google), I switched to originals and never looked back.
Sorry about your veggies, Regen. But 36 isn't that hot.. What kind of veggies do you have?
For a good literary translation you need someone who has mastered both languages and is a good writer as well. The pay you get does not match the skills needed. It is often done badly.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Dina

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1624 on: July 22, 2022, 09:29:30 PM »
Hi Arjan! I agree. Sometimes I am baffled by some English expressions, and sometimes I laughed at too literal translations.
No example come to my memory right now but I know I found several.
Then, there are those I thought were bad translations, and there were not. For example, the first time I've read Robots and Empire, by Asimov, it mentioned the Zeroth law (which is more important than the First Law) and I thought the Spanish translation had read Oth and had invented Zeroth. I did not realize that you could say zeroth instead of 0th. (And yes, I know it is weird to use the ordinal form for 0. Spanish had not a way, I supposed we would just say the Zero Law or the Law of order zero.

In other topics, today has been unseasonally warm and sunny. Springlike  :)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1625 on: July 24, 2022, 11:01:20 AM »
For a good literary translation you need someone who has mastered both languages and is a good writer as well. The pay you get does not match the skills needed. It is often done badly.
This I think is only a part of it.
But there is more to a good translation.
For example there are sometimes events or naming in a book, which the author knows will have meaning later, thus the exact wording he chose to lead to misinterpretation. Now there are several ways to translate that, depending on the language you are translating into, depending on words and phrases available in said language due to cultural and historical differences.
The translator can be perfect in both languages, can be an extremely skilled story teller, but still make a poor choice in translation, just because he is not the original author and does not know what is to come. Or that there is more to it, than it seems at first read.

Then there is the IMHO not unimportant fact, that one would not only translate works one can relate to or enjoy, but also stuff you think boring or bad writing. So your heart wouldn't be in it, so to speak.

Then there are words and phrases that sound good in one language, but weird in another. But you would want somehow to convey the feeling they produce without changing the meaning.

I tried that with some wordings I wasn't content with.

Like JB for example:
This only true for the DF, not Alera or Cinder Spires (I haven't read that yet).

He writes mostly like some dude telling his story with mostly simple word choice. Mostly I feels as if Harry was just sitting there with his beer and telling his story to a friend. But this is exactly the art in it. Sometimes his sentences are so minimalistic that you could not honestly call them sentences. But sometimes they are almost philosophical. Like the main person himself.

I tried to translate specific parts for myself and my friend who asked me about parts she wasn't sure if she understood the meaning.
It is easier with the long complicated sentences. But really hard with the short ones. Especially to create the intended feeling.

I can only remember two of them. But I can't look up the translation of the first one because the German book belongs to the library. It was in Proven Guilty, the elevator scene: "Stab. Twist."
I couldn't find a satisfying translation myself. What was done conveyed the meaning, one would not have noticed if one didn't know the original, but I remember, it was too many words.

The second one was in Changes, after he killed Susan.

I used the knife.
I saved the child.
I won the war.
God forgive me.

(It may not be correct, I'm doing this without looking it up, because at the moment I only have the translation at hand)

This was not translated the way I liked. Though the translator used the same style: short sentences, each it's one line.


So no matter how skilled you are, it is still not possible to do a perfect job. This is one of the times it could have been translated almost word for word, but he didn't and thus ruined it.

Don't get me wrong. It wasn't ruined for a first reader who didn't know the original. I remember my friend sending me exactly this part and telling me she needs to pause because she has to cry and can't see properly. 
But I was disappointed.  ;)


On the upside: there were times, the translation made me understand something better. When I thought, Oh that's what he meant! I thought it was something else.

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1626 on: July 24, 2022, 11:08:01 AM »
Second post, other topic:

Our nephew visited yesterday with his friend who is a girl.  ;D
They are definitely together. We saw them kiss :-*
LOL
Before it wasn't official, but nowhe is introducing her to the family. Cute.

My husband and I are going to the cinema today. We are watching Thor.
My daughter watched it on Friday with her friends. It was her birthday party and I was not allowed to join them, because I seem to embarrass her, or so she told me, lol.

It is still hot, but now there are thunderstorms and rain in between as is normal for that part of the year.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1627 on: July 24, 2022, 12:37:22 PM »
This I think is only a part of it.
But there is more to a good translation.
For example there are sometimes events or naming in a book, which the author knows will have meaning later, thus the exact wording he chose to lead to misinterpretation. Now there are several ways to translate that, depending on the language you are translating into, depending on words and phrases available in said language due to cultural and historical differences.
The translator can be perfect in both languages, can be an extremely skilled story teller, but still make a poor choice in translation, just because he is not the original author and does not know what is to come. Or that there is more to it, than it seems at first read.

Then there is the IMHO not unimportant fact, that one would not only translate works one can relate to or enjoy, but also stuff you think boring or bad writing. So your heart wouldn't be in it, so to speak.

Then there are words and phrases that sound good in one language, but weird in another. But you would want somehow to convey the feeling they produce without changing the meaning.

I tried that with some wordings I wasn't content with.

Like JB for example:
This only true for the DF, not Alera or Cinder Spires (I haven't read that yet).

He writes mostly like some dude telling his story with mostly simple word choice. Mostly I feels as if Harry was just sitting there with his beer and telling his story to a friend. But this is exactly the art in it. Sometimes his sentences are so minimalistic that you could not honestly call them sentences. But sometimes they are almost philosophical. Like the main person himself.

I tried to translate specific parts for myself and my friend who asked me about parts she wasn't sure if she understood the meaning.
It is easier with the long complicated sentences. But really hard with the short ones. Especially to create the intended feeling.

I can only remember two of them. But I can't look up the translation of the first one because the German book belongs to the library. It was in Proven Guilty, the elevator scene: "Stab. Twist."
I couldn't find a satisfying translation myself. What was done conveyed the meaning, one would not have noticed if one didn't know the original, but I remember, it was too many words.

The second one was in Changes, after he killed Susan.

I used the knife.
I saved the child.
I won the war.
God forgive me.

(It may not be correct, I'm doing this without looking it up, because at the moment I only have the translation at hand)

This was not translated the way I liked. Though the translator used the same style: short sentences, each it's one line.


So no matter how skilled you are, it is still not possible to do a perfect job. This is one of the times it could have been translated almost word for word, but he didn't and thus ruined it.

Don't get me wrong. It wasn't ruined for a first reader who didn't know the original. I remember my friend sending me exactly this part and telling me she needs to pause because she has to cry and can't see properly. 
But I was disappointed.  ;)


On the upside: there were times, the translation made me understand something better. When I thought, Oh that's what he meant! I thought it was something else.
And that one borders poetry and poetry is even more impossible to translate.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Fcrate

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1628 on: July 24, 2022, 04:29:58 PM »
Second post, other topic:

Our nephew visited yesterday with his friend who is a girl.  ;D
They are definitely together. We saw them kiss :-*
LOL
Before it wasn't official, but nowhe is introducing her to the family. Cute.

My husband and I are going to the cinema today. We are watching Thor.
My daughter watched it on Friday with her friends. It was her birthday party and I was not allowed to join them, because I seem to embarrass her, or so she told me, lol.

It is still hot, but now there are thunderstorms and rain in between as is normal for that part of the year.
Let me know if it's any good. I read the plot line and it didn't draw me in.
About translations: I don't think it's needed to like the book, as long as they have good writing skills, and are immersed in the original language's culture.
And that one borders poetry and poetry is even more impossible to translate.
Remove the poetry from the translation. No great loss.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1629 on: July 24, 2022, 05:20:54 PM »
About the movie:
Sometimes it was a bit too ridiculous, but we definitely had fun watching. The female Thor storyline wasn't that bad. There was a reason. And I felt sad for the antagonist. He was very well played.
I was pleased with the ending.

Offline Dina

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1630 on: July 24, 2022, 11:46:52 PM »
This I think is only a part of it.
But there is more to a good translation.
For example there are sometimes events or naming in a book, which the author knows will have meaning later, thus the exact wording he chose to lead to misinterpretation. Now there are several ways to translate that, depending on the language you are translating into, depending on words and phrases available in said language due to cultural and historical differences.
The translator can be perfect in both languages, can be an extremely skilled story teller, but still make a poor choice in translation, just because he is not the original author and does not know what is to come. Or that there is more to it, than it seems at first read.

Then there is the IMHO not unimportant fact, that one would not only translate works one can relate to or enjoy, but also stuff you think boring or bad writing. So your heart wouldn't be in it, so to speak.

Then there are words and phrases that sound good in one language, but weird in another. But you would want somehow to convey the feeling they produce without changing the meaning.

I tried that with some wordings I wasn't content with.

Like JB for example:
This only true for the DF, not Alera or Cinder Spires (I haven't read that yet).

He writes mostly like some dude telling his story with mostly simple word choice. Mostly I feels as if Harry was just sitting there with his beer and telling his story to a friend. But this is exactly the art in it. Sometimes his sentences are so minimalistic that you could not honestly call them sentences. But sometimes they are almost philosophical. Like the main person himself.

I tried to translate specific parts for myself and my friend who asked me about parts she wasn't sure if she understood the meaning.
It is easier with the long complicated sentences. But really hard with the short ones. Especially to create the intended feeling.

I can only remember two of them. But I can't look up the translation of the first one because the German book belongs to the library. It was in Proven Guilty, the elevator scene: "Stab. Twist."
I couldn't find a satisfying translation myself. What was done conveyed the meaning, one would not have noticed if one didn't know the original, but I remember, it was too many words.

The second one was in Changes, after he killed Susan.

I used the knife.
I saved the child.
I won the war.
God forgive me.

(It may not be correct, I'm doing this without looking it up, because at the moment I only have the translation at hand)

This was not translated the way I liked. Though the translator used the same style: short sentences, each it's one line.


So no matter how skilled you are, it is still not possible to do a perfect job. This is one of the times it could have been translated almost word for word, but he didn't and thus ruined it.

Don't get me wrong. It wasn't ruined for a first reader who didn't know the original. I remember my friend sending me exactly this part and telling me she needs to pause because she has to cry and can't see properly. 
But I was disappointed.  ;)


On the upside: there were times, the translation made me understand something better. When I thought, Oh that's what he meant! I thought it was something else.
Very nice post. I agree about all what you said.
I have a small comment I was reminded of. There is a DF scene where he is in México I believe and people were shouting "fuego!" which means "Fire!" in Spanish and in that situation meant "Shoot!" But some people in this forum mentioned that they were confused thinking that Harry was casting his Fuego spell  :). I had never thought about that until I read the posts here.

I think I will wait for Thor to be in my Disney+ but I am glad you enjoyed it. I've been watching Ms Marvel. It was more or less fine, I liked it better in the ending than the first times.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Don

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1631 on: July 26, 2022, 02:00:53 AM »
Hello all,

I'm still alive.  I do not find myself sitting in front of a computer very much these days.  When I do, I think of you.
Don is the Prince of Anarchy  :P

Please excuse my grammar, and speling.

Offline Dina

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1632 on: July 26, 2022, 04:46:23 AM »
((((((((((((((((((Don))))))))))))))))))))
You are missed!
I hope you do not seat in front of a computer too often because of good reasons, and having better things to do.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Don

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1633 on: July 26, 2022, 10:00:59 PM »
I renovate old houses these days.  Not many zoom meeings for a job like that :P

My laptop sits collecting dust, for the most part.  I use my phone for most things these days.

Anyway, I hope you're doing alright.
Don is the Prince of Anarchy  :P

Please excuse my grammar, and speling.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Weird? Pretty much.
« Reply #1634 on: July 26, 2022, 10:29:01 PM »
I renovate old houses these days.  Not many zoom meeings for a job like that :P

My laptop sits collecting dust, for the most part.  I use my phone for most things these days.

Anyway, I hope you're doing alright.
Sometimes I use my phone for this. Then I get continuous spelling mistakes when the keyboard is on the wrong language and corrupts my messages,
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]