Is Harry Senior Council Level?

[Con]

Fairly Simple question.


Personally I think so, but honestly I've thought so since Changes, personal magic duel with Arianna Ortega who was around for millenia, ending 10 000 or so Red Court Vampires, including defeating the Lords of Outer Night.

Cold Days he leads the Wild Hunt and fights 2 youngest Queens and a Knight.

Skin Game defeats Hannah Ascher with ease.

Plus his allies, include Butters: Jedi Knight of the Cross, Molly: one youngest Fae Queen, Kringle/Vadderung, Mab, Leansidhe e.t.c.

[Mira]

Yes, he is, but he is too young, inexperienced, and more to the point political to be voted on the Senior Council, or is seen that way by all including Eb I think.

[Con]

Of course, but I think he could potentially pull a Cristos, with the Wardens and Younger Generation to get a spot on the council. It would be a good twist, him pulling the same stunt, and Harry could actually do it and pull it off, if he needed to. Klaus the Toymaker would just sigh and concede again.

Admittedly a WAG but a fun one.

[Mira]

Of course, but I think he could potentially pull a Cristos, with the Wardens and Younger Generation to get a spot on the council. It would be a good twist, him pulling the same stunt, and Harry could actually do it and pull it off, if he needed to. Klaus the Toymaker would just sigh and concede again.

Admittedly a WAG but a fun one.

I cannot remember what happened exactly when Eb got the post, but if I remember correctly only the Senior Council can vote on new members.   That makes a huge difference, I can see Harry getting at least three votes, perhaps four if Martha Liberty goes along with Rashid, Eb, and Listens to  Wind, but I cannot see any of the other members voting for him, including the Merlin.  I also think if the vote includes the rest of the members the vote would still be split along political lines, the older conservatives who are suspicious of Harry, those that are just jealous, and the younger group that admire him for a number of reasons, not the least his ability to shake things up.

[Avernite]

I would say - clearly no.

Harry has an image, but no political base.

He also doesn't have the depth of experience on other fields than open combat.

That said, he does have the required magical juice, so in a century or 2 he'd make a great candidate if he can overcome his aversion to connecting with anyone but other youngsters (or just make sure enough fellow youngsters become old too).

[Mira]

I would say - clearly no.

Harry has an image, but no political base.

He also doesn't have the depth of experience on other fields than open combat.

That said, he does have the required magical juice, so in a century or 2 he'd make a great candidate if he can overcome his aversion to connecting with anyone but other youngsters (or just make sure enough fellow youngsters become old too).

  Yeah, I don't think it is a matter of talent or juice,  it is more youth, lack of experience, and the politics that currently surround him.  Someday perhaps, but at the moment there is too much prejudice against him given who his mother was and will be more as information about Thomas and even Eb comes out.

[magnuskn]

Oh, come on. You know if Harry were to get on the Council, it would be against his will and in a way which would screw him over in a variety of ways. That's just how his life goes. 

[Arjan]

Not yet but we will see in Battle Ground what he can do with the spear of destiny.

[Maz]

Raw magical talent - yes.
Developed skill and strength - no.
Political acumen and connections - no and not exactly.

Harry is a brawler with raw magical muscle but lacking in finer control.
His repertoire is actually  sort of broad.  He would eventually make a great senior council member - in the future. 

But lets compare him to a few we know of:
/the definitively superior list/
The Merlin: Oh heck no.  The Merlin has done things on and off screen on the fly that suggest his strength is at least equal and the talent gap is wide.  His connections and acumen eclipse Harry's despite Harry being Winter Knight.
Eb:  Vadderung has stated Eb would mop the floor with him.  I agree.  Harry is inferior in every way.
The Gatekeeper:  Same.

/the most probably superior list/
Martha Liberty: The White Council's Spymaster.  Obviously hyperconnected. Pulls off a veil that gets past Harry.  Otherwise, limited knowledge but has Eb's respect.
Listens to Wind:  Defeats Shagnasty, albeit with an advantage for him.  Does things that make Harry go wow. 
Ancient Mai:  Not a combat wizard but the White Council's "magical engineering/artificer expert".  Heavily connected.  Everyone seems to kowtow to her so I presume she is nothing to sneeze at.


Cristos: We know nothing here but we know he is heavily connected.

Harry's one advantage I'm ignoring is Demonreach but I don't think that's a usable power-up or device.

If Harry were put on the Senior Council, it would be for morale or political consideration (to ally the Winter Court, for example).  I'd like to see it but on a raw level he isnt ready.

[Mira]

Political acumen and connections - no and not exactly.

Yes, he does actually, to both..  He showed political acumen when he bested the Merlin in a debate
at Molly's trial, though he also made an enemy there.  And he does have connections both on the Senior Council and outside of it, powerful ones.

[Bad Alias]

I cannot remember what happened exactly when Eb got the post, but if I remember correctly only the Senior Council can vote on new members.

There was no vote. It was simply a nominating procedure and when they got to Eb, no one else was standing for office except Klaus who withdrew himself from consideration.

[Con]

Ok so given that where would you rank harry within the white council hr puts himself w o thin the top 30 or so. If we include senior council would he make the top 10?

Senior councils 7. Assume klaus is 8. That'd put harry at 9 or 10. If we discount Cristos at 8. The only other combat near that level we know about would be Bjorn whom we only saw in Turn Coat on Demonreach.

[g33k]

There's lots of ways to express power.  Raw "who would win a straight-up, face-to-face slugfest" is only one of those ways; arguably, in the Dresdenverse, it's one of the least important ways to measure power... and one of the least important features of the Senior Council (not unimportant, but not a "top 3" item... maybe not even top 5... top 10 probably).

It's just the way Harry -- in his straightforward manner -- tends to think.

But the Senior Council already has all of those sorts of wizards that they need (most such wizards are better suited for Warden duty (where they mostly are)).

Furthermore... Harry's really inexperienced.  He needs a lot more experience and seasoning... not in combat (where he has more than his share) but in all the other ways the WC interacts with other supernatural entities and groups.
 

[morriswalters]

No.  He almost gets taken out by a Lacuna with nails.  He has a broken back and one piece of iron and he's dust.

[TrueMonk]

Aren't the senior council set in order of age? That scene when Eb gets on they call out names untill they get to his and then he says I'll do it. And then the senior council voted him in. (That is how I remember it)

It is a LOT of wizards who would have to abstain before they got to 30somthing Harry