End of the Millenium shenanigans

[kbrizzle]

So I’ve been thinking a bit about how large, world changing events seem to happen around the end of every millennium in the DV (give or take 50-75 years) - these events invariably establish a new supernatural world order.

Here are some of the events I can see & am curious if you guys can come up with any more events that happened around the end of any millennium that helped create a new supernatural world order. I also wonder how many of these events are linked.

2nd Millennium A.D
The current case files are playing out the large, world changing events that will influence the DV for the next few centuries. No doubt there will be more:

• Mab created a series of Accords & got every significant power in the DV to sign on & agree to a common set of rules & laws
• The Black & Red Courts of Vampires have been driven to near extinction
• The Fomor have risen again to directly influence mortal events
• There are only 2 Dragons left (& I suspect Ferrovax won’t last the BAT)
• Harry the Starborn is running around & is the warden of Demonreach

1st Millennium A.D

• The Fae take over guardianship of the Gates from the Norse - the era of Odin & the Aesir/ Jotun etc ends
• The entire Fae leadership is shaken up - there is a new Mother Summer, Summer/ Winter Queens as well as Ladies
• The Red King usurps the position of the original Kukulkan after feeding on it, making the Ramps players
• The White Council is headquartered in Constantinople since the Byzantine Empire is all that remains of Rome
• A Starborn (Rashid?) was active

0 A.D

• Jesus was born/ died - left behind a new religion as well as a bunch of extremely powerful artifacts, amongst other things
• The Coins & the Swords were created
• Merlin was likely around & created the Laws of Magic
• The Greeks were in charge of the Outer Gates likely using Roman masks/ mantles
• A Starborn (Merlin?) was active

1000 B.C

• White Court of Vampires is likely created
• Ancient Greek civilization was born
• Total WAG but Egyptian gods were likely guardians at the Gates

2000 BC

• Red Court of vampires is created
• New world religions like Judaism & Hinduism are born
• Total WAG but the Sumerians are likely guardians at the Gates

[g33k]

Some interesting notions!  I like the outline, though I differ in a few specifics...  I'd bump the Red King & LoON ascension back a cycle, or even two (for example); I'd pull the Egyptian gods up to the 0AD, and get rid of the Greeks -- they're too "familiar" and hum-drum for the Romans of 0AD.

But really, that's just "stylistic" changes -- your basic premise is really good!

[kbrizzle]

@g33k

Thanks! So the reason I put the Ramp ascension into major players around 1000 AD is because that’s when the Mayan civilization was at it’s peak & I imagine that Kukulkan was the Red King’s most powerful mask. The Reds were definitely players before then too (having been around for 3000 years at that point), but entrenching themselves into the Mayan mythology is likely what catapaulted them to serious power.

So we know the Greeks were in charge of the Gates at some point prior to the Norse, & given what we know about mantles/ masks, it seems likely that Hades just took on the mask of Pluto Ares to Mars etc to become more palatable to the larger Roman Empire.

Hmm so the Egypt had been ruled by the Greeks (Ptolemaic dynasty) for a few centuries prior to 0 AD, not sure if there was much of an Egyptian religion left at that point.

[exartiem]

I would posit that Jesus was also a Starborn.  Born, literally, under the Star of Bethlehem; had control over demons; returned from the dead, etc...

[kbrizzle]

@exartiem
I like that idea although I think Jesus in the DV was a god

[Bad Alias]

@exartiem
I like that idea although I think Jesus in the DV was a god

Most modern Christians say he was both god and man, so it wouldn't be a large departure for Jim to have him be a god and a man who was a wizard or something. But I don't think Jim is going to go into a whole lot of detail about Jesus. I don't think we're going much deeper into Christianity than we got in Skin Game or any other part of the series so far. We might get into what characters believe about it, but I doubt we're going to have an authoritative statement one way or the other about much.

[exartiem]

Most modern Christians say he was both god and man, so it wouldn't be a large departure for Jim to have him be a god and a man who was a wizard or something. But I don't think Jim is going to go into a whole lot of detail about Jesus. I don't think we're going much deeper into Christianity than we got in Skin Game or any other part of the series so far. We might get into what characters believe about it, but I doubt we're going to have an authoritative statement one way or the other about much.

I think he will get a little deeper into Christianity.  He almost has to.  He has brought 5 of the highest and most powerful religious artifacts into the story line and he has said he is a lazy writer, so he isn't going to waste them.

[g33k]

... and he has said he is a lazy writer, so he isn't going to waste them.

... and Harry's staff for the cover of Battle Ground seems to have a SPEAR head on it ...

I wonder where he found THAT li'l ol' thang...

[Bad Alias]

But he doesn't have to go any deeper to bring them out again, much less much deeper. Jim's kept to a very bird's eye view of Christianity. There was this guy named Jesus who was crucified and has a relationship to the Creator that makes relics associated with him powerful weapons against forces of evil. Angels, including archangels and fallen angels, are real. The Creator believes in allowing humans choice. That's really about it.

He has given us plenty of different characters opinions on Christianity and God, but opinions aren't authoritative.

There's a big difference in saying what the artifacts are going to do and saying Jesus was a wizard or some such thing.

[Yuillegan]

Hmmm not sure I 100% agree, BA.

Jim tends to walk a funny line between saying everyone's views are equally important and there is an objective truth to things. Which aside from being contradictory is also just frustrating. But it does make for interesting writing, to a point.

I would say he will likely explore it further, yet also probably not take too strong a position. He might get TWG or Jesus or some other Deus Ex Machina moment in, but also deliberately leave it vague. You can sort of tell when he talk about how it isn't the beings themselves that change, just our ideas about them. The whole three blind men and an elephant analogy.

But I would definitely expect him to explore Christian teachings/legends (just to be clear, legends are not necessarily myths - but they are stories with a point rather than historical notation/exposition/analysis which any theologian could tell you, doing my best to be respectful here). He has already included a number of items and embellished and invented new parts of it, so I expect there to be a fair bit more. 

[exartiem]

I would not describe Jim's approach to Christianity as 'bird's eye view'.  He has gotten quite specific.

What he has done, however, is avoid any character that has real-world scripture describing them.  Everyone who thinks of themselves as Christian has image of Jesus in their minds and what he would be like in person based on what they have read in the New Testament.  If Jim were to have Jesus appear in the story, he would have to describe Him in such a way that some readers would like it and some might be put off or even offended that Jim described Jesus in a different way than they imagined Him.

Therefore, Jim sticks to characters he made up, like Michael and Forthill, and guys like Uriel who have no scripture really describing them.  Thus, all Jim has to do is stay within the broad borders of "Catholicism" and describe those others in large terms.

[g33k]

It's worth noting that with Michael retired and Amoracchius out of service, the only two "Knights of the Cross" aren't even Christians.

So the Christian god (in the Dresdenverse) is a he...ck of  lot more eclectic than most Christians (RW or 'verse) might think.  I do not suggest the same is true of Christians on this board!
 

[Bad Alias]

He has gotten quite specific.

Has he? Forgiveness; Jesus existed and was crucified, maybe he rose from the dead; angels; a couple of Bible quotes; and ...

That seems pretty limited to me.

[Mira]

   I think it more of a "universal belief" system of sorts, because the Dresdenverse seems to have room for everyone, God, gods, goddesses, and atheists.   It mostly boils down to a battle of good verses evil, and the gray areas in-between, even debating what is the true nature of good or evil..

[Sev Expar]

I would posit that Jesus was also a Starborn.  Born, literally, under the Star of Bethlehem; had control over demons; returned from the dead, etc...

Where did someone mention controlling demons and resurrection in the list of starborn powers? Also, demons are not outsiders, so starborn have no known effect on them.