Author Topic: Battle Ground Cover Art  (Read 11789 times)

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2020, 10:14:30 PM »
I don't care if McGrath is a three eyed man from Mars.  And as I said, it would be interesting if the cover was about evil Harry from dimension x come to give our Harry the high hard one with a spear.  I find the idea amusing. 

If I had a bitch about it, the bitch would be for him changing things that are important story elements. But that would only matter if I actually gave a s**t.   However I like his style, particularly his latest covers.  Skin Game was outstanding and Battle Ground is as well.  Peace Talks is kinda of meh.  You might speculate that I like red values and standing poses.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2020, 11:08:26 PM »
And as I said, it would be interesting if the cover was about evil Harry from dimension x come to give our Harry the high hard one with a spear.  I find the idea amusing.
I missed that. While I like it, I doubt it because it's on the cover of both books. If it were the case, I'd expect it to only be the case for Battle Grounds. I was wondering if it was because of him being the Winter Knight, but it's not upside down on the Cold Days cover.

Skin Game was outstanding and Battle Ground is as well.  Peace Talks is kinda of meh.  You might speculate that I like red values and standing poses.
Skin Game is very cool, but Battle Ground is even better.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2020, 08:59:09 AM »
I don't care if McGrath is a three eyed man from Mars.  And as I said, it would be interesting if the cover was about evil Harry from dimension x come to give our Harry the high hard one with a spear.  I find the idea amusing. 
That would be mirror mirror. It would be nice to have them on the cover both looking at each other.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2376
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2020, 05:13:53 PM »
That would be mirror mirror. It would be nice to have them on the cover both looking at each other.

In my copy of Mirror Mirror -- the one that exists inside my skull -- Harry has one of his few "mirror moments" (as we know, he generally avoids mirrors because various creatures can use them as portals and/or as spycam's), trying to take stock, etc.  Probably just before a Hot Date with Karrin, or a VIP event with the Grey Council, or etc.

As he adjusts his appearance & attire, his "reflection" suddenly reaches out and grabs him by the throat, and yanks him into/through the mirror; Harry!prime (our narrator) just has time to think, "Yeah, there's a good reason I try to avoid these things..."

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24358
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2020, 05:36:37 PM »
In my copy of Mirror Mirror -- the one that exists inside my skull -- Harry has one of his few "mirror moments" (as we know, he generally avoids mirrors because various creatures can use them as portals and/or as spycam's), trying to take stock, etc.  Probably just before a Hot Date with Karrin, or a VIP event with the Grey Council, or etc.

As he adjusts his appearance & attire, his "reflection" suddenly reaches out and grabs him by the throat, and yanks him into/through the mirror; Harry!prime (our narrator) just has time to think, "Yeah, there's a good reason I try to avoid these things..."

Didn't that sort of happen to Alice when she went through the looking glass? ::)

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2376
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2020, 07:09:50 PM »
Didn't that sort of happen to Alice when she went through the looking glass? ::)

What... you think Jim wouldn't do that???    ;D

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24358
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2020, 08:47:03 PM »
 
What... you think Jim wouldn't do that???    ;D

 :-X No, comment...

Offline AClone

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2020, 08:54:54 PM »
I think it's "upside down" because that's how Mr. McGrath did it. I don't think it means anything more than that. The ruby is also absent in Cold Days and Peace Talks. I also that's just a choice Mr. McGrath made (or he just didn't know about the ruby).
This. I don't know if the artist actually reads the books, or is merely informed of important elements of them. In this case, the ruby was a throwback from all the way back in Changes, so perhaps Mr. McGrath simply didn't think of it. Not everyone is a Dresden nerd. Poor them!

That's the likely explanation. Not the guaranteed one, because…Jim.  Harry might simply have had reason to remove the stone temporarily. Until we read the book, we don't know.

The first thing that I thought significant in the artwork is that though there is a great deal of artistic license (the hat has become a cover trademark), specific weapons Harry uses in a book usually show up in the cover art. That was so in Cold Days and Skin Game, though I don't know how accurate the representation was for either—especially in Skin Game, Remember, Murphy gave Harry the short barrel version of the S&W 500—but the long barrel portrayed on the cover looks much cooler. Sells more books. The same reason for the hat.

Thus the blade that has suddenly appeared atop Harry's staff may appear shaped the way it is simply because the artist (and Penguin) thinks that it will sell more books. I learned a bit about Greek and Roman blades the last few days. Of course, none of it really fit the appearance of that blade.

In any case, the moment that I saw the image, that blade jumped out at me. Sure, the background is the middle of Chicago, but we all knew that was going to happen. Harry's anguish in the Christmas Story is there for a reason.

Upon reflection, I see three possibilities.

A. That isn’t Harry’s staff—or at least not the one he made on Demonreach—at all. Perhaps something entirely different.
B. As mentioned by others, the blade is the one from the knife Harry retrieved from Hades’ Vault.
C. The actual blade pictured is…something else.

As for the blade itself, two options popped into my head. One is that this is indeed the blade that was attached to the knife that he retrieved in Skin Game. A distinct possibility, but there are a couple of arguments against that. The overarching one being that as Skin Game concluded, I assumed that the four items Harry retrieved wouldn't come into play until closer to the endgame three book sequence. Say, Book 20 or so.

Specifically, Harry's intent was to stash them away safely in the depths of Demonreach, and do research on how best to use each of them. Unlike previous books, there has been a relatively short period since the events of Skin Game, a period where Harry has been busy both rebuilding his life essentially from scratch, and establishing his relationship with Maggie. How much time would he have for research right off the bat?

I don't know how much ready information Bob would have on the subject (Harry really needs to take full possession of him once more) because those are items of faith, and Bob has repeatedly referred to them as off his wavelength.

Now, Bonea would likely have more information in her database, courtesy of a Fallen Angel’s knowledge and memories...but from WOJ, I think that we'll see that access to that information is an issue. As Jim said, it takes centuries to build a spirit like Bob. Bonnie needs to build connections, establish frameworks of reference for all of the information she has loosely floating around.

And of course, perhaps everyone's assumptions (including Mab's) as to the spirit holding onto Lasciel's knowledge were incorrect.

In any case, I doubt that Harry has discovered how to correctly or effectively use those four items as of yet. And Jim wouldn't make something that easy for Harry.

On the other hand, in case of fire, break glass. Since when has ignorance stopped Harry from using something he thought would help  when in dire need? Think about how he bonded with Demonreach. And how different events in a couple of encounters there could have been had he managed to learn what he knew a couple of books later, at the start of Skin Game.

And, looking at the background of the image,  Harry certainly does seem to have a fire on his hands. Literally so. So, I've almost dispensed with my own argument. Still, I won't give up on that point, because there is a distinct second possibility.

Harry is hardly one not to steal good ideas. Gee, I wonder where he gets that particular trait from? After seeing Elaine's lightning chain, he went out and whipped up his own--which proved useful, though we haven't seen it again. Perhaps in practical use, he saw shortcomings he didn't like.

In any case, in Changes (along with all of the other impacts of that particular book) Harry saw that Vadderung's "wizard staff” was also a spear. I think he saw that as an inspiration. And seriously, can you see his weapons consultant, Murphy, arguing that having sharp and pointy things to stick on the end of a staff is a bad thing?

Tactically, staves are intended to serve a specific purpose. One completely different from a spear. And spears are not intended for either the same purpose or usage as a staff. The shaft of your average spear would not make a good staff. I had to look it up--but Jim Butcher doubtless already knows that.

So, I think that perhaps Harry decided to innovate, to expand his armament repertoire. And no, I don't think Vonnerung loaned him his spear, the way that Ebenezar made a quick loan in Changes. Probably. See later.

That said, there is another familiar type of magical blade in the Dresden Files that we know is fairly common. It's pretty well known, though we've seen fewer of them recently. And we know that Harry thinks they are useful. At one point he even considers all of the things they can do. And we've seen Carlos use his--more than once. Anastasia Luccio as well.

A Warden's sword.

Now, we all know that Luccio said that she can't make them any more, in her new body--though she also added that perhaps someday she'd be able to reacquire those skills. I have been wondering about when that might happen. But I think that's something that Jim considers as "too easy for Harry", simply having things given to him.

I am also certain that the blade being mounted on a staff is a clear indication that Luccio did not make it. As Harry repeatedly says, "old things get set in their ways", and Luccio definitely qualifies. Harry even mentioned at one point that she was near to candidacy for the Senior Council.

None of that is a stumbling block. If Luccio didn't make a blade that has the enchantments of a Warden's sword, who did?

Let's put it this way. I think that there have been enough hints lately that Harry is about to have a closer relationship with the svartalves. I have little doubt that if he asked them, that one of their craftsmen could make a blade with the same or similar abilities to a Warden's sword. Or better. He has some liquid assets available for fun—um, useful things now.

Yes, I know it's the blade of a spear rather than a sword. Fortuitously, utilizing that form would eliminate some of the nagging inherent issues of a Warden's sword. As in, you wouldn't have to change hands, or set aside your staff and take the time to draw your sword when you needed it. See? Portability.

That degree of innovation Harry (or the svartalves) could provide. And besides--Harry has to have something to blow…ah, spend his diamonds on. And I'm pretty sure that rather than Harry taking the time of carefully selling them, the svartalves would likely—gleefully—take high quality diamonds as cash.

But that for another time.

As far as the staff on the cover not being Harry’s own, well…first point, Eb said at the end of Changes that he’d get Harry a blank from his lightning-struck tree. Harry’s had enough time to make a new staff away from his limitations at Demonreach.

Next, by the time this book rolls around, there’s a whole lot of battle going on, and a whole lot of powerful entities wandering around. Who knows who might have reached into their toy box for a powerful magical item for Harry to play with?

More on that, perhaps, another time. Enough meandering for now.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24358
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2020, 09:54:48 PM »
Quote
Thus the blade that has suddenly appeared atop Harry's staff may appear shaped the way it is simply because the artist (and Penguin) thinks that it will sell more books. I learned a bit about Greek and Roman blades the last few days. Of course, none of it really fit the appearance of that blade.

 Just throwing this out there, there is a movie called "Risen,"  which actually is pretty good for a movie of it's type.   Taking their research with a grain of salt, but I watched it after seeing the cover art, and the spear point used to stab Christ looked very much like the one on Harry's staff.  As I said, no clue as to how much research they did as far as Roman weapons of the time goes, but I was struck by the likeness.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2020, 08:56:21 PM »
I don't think it matters what a spear a Roman soldier carried looked like. I think a lot of prop designers and artists go with the rule of cool.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2376
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2020, 09:26:44 PM »
... Thus the blade that has suddenly appeared atop Harry's staff may appear shaped the way it is simply because the artist (and Penguin) thinks that it will sell more books. I learned a bit about Greek and Roman blades the last few days. Of course, none of it really fit the appearance of that blade.

In any case, the moment that I saw the image, that blade jumped out at me. Sure, the background is the middle of Chicago, but we all knew that was going to happen. Harry's anguish in the Christmas Story is there for a reason.

Upon reflection, I see three possibilities.

A. That isn’t Harry’s staff—or at least not the one he made on Demonreach—at all. Perhaps something entirely different.
B. As mentioned by others, the blade is the one from the knife Harry retrieved from Hades’ Vault.
C. The actual blade pictured is…something else.

As for the blade itself, two options popped into my head. One is that this is indeed the blade that was attached to the knife that he retrieved in Skin Game. A distinct possibility, but there are a couple of arguments against that. The overarching one being that as Skin Game concluded, I assumed that the four items Harry retrieved wouldn't come into play until closer to the endgame three book sequence. Say, Book 20 or so.

Specifically, Harry's intent was to stash them away safely in the depths of Demonreach, and do research on how best to use each of them. Unlike previous books, there has been a relatively short period since the events of Skin Game, a period where Harry has been busy both rebuilding his life essentially from scratch, and establishing his relationship with Maggie. How much time would he have for research right off the bat?

I don't know how much ready information Bob would have on the subject (Harry really needs to take full possession of him once more) because those are items of faith, and Bob has repeatedly referred to them as off his wavelength.

Now, Bonea would likely have more information in her database, courtesy of a Fallen Angel’s knowledge and memories...but from WOJ, I think that we'll see that access to that information is an issue. As Jim said, it takes centuries to build a spirit like Bob. Bonnie needs to build connections, establish frameworks of reference for all of the information she has loosely floating around.

And of course, perhaps everyone's assumptions (including Mab's) as to the spirit holding onto Lasciel's knowledge were incorrect.

In any case, I doubt that Harry has discovered how to correctly or effectively use those four items as of yet. And Jim wouldn't make something that easy for Harry.

On the other hand, in case of fire, break glass. Since when has ignorance stopped Harry from using something he thought would help  when in dire need? Think about how he bonded with Demonreach. And how different events in a couple of encounters there could have been had he managed to learn what he knew a couple of books later, at the start of Skin Game.

And, looking at the background of the image,  Harry certainly does seem to have a fire on his hands. Literally so. So, I've almost dispensed with my own argument. Still, I won't give up on that point, because there is a distinct second possibility.

Harry is hardly one not to steal good ideas. Gee, I wonder where he gets that particular trait from? After seeing Elaine's lightning chain, he went out and whipped up his own--which proved useful, though we haven't seen it again. Perhaps in practical use, he saw shortcomings he didn't like.

In any case, in Changes (along with all of the other impacts of that particular book) Harry saw that Vadderung's "wizard staff” was also a spear. I think he saw that as an inspiration. And seriously, can you see his weapons consultant, Murphy, arguing that having sharp and pointy things to stick on the end of a staff is a bad thing?

Tactically, staves are intended to serve a specific purpose. One completely different from a spear. And spears are not intended for either the same purpose or usage as a staff. The shaft of your average spear would not make a good staff. I had to look it up--but Jim Butcher doubtless already knows that.

So, I think that perhaps Harry decided to innovate, to expand his armament repertoire. And no, I don't think Vonnerung loaned him his spear, the way that Ebenezar made a quick loan in Changes. Probably. See later.

That said, there is another familiar type of magical blade in the Dresden Files that we know is fairly common. It's pretty well known, though we've seen fewer of them recently. And we know that Harry thinks they are useful. At one point he even considers all of the things they can do. And we've seen Carlos use his--more than once. Anastasia Luccio as well.

A Warden's sword.

Now, we all know that Luccio said that she can't make them any more, in her new body--though she also added that perhaps someday she'd be able to reacquire those skills. I have been wondering about when that might happen. But I think that's something that Jim considers as "too easy for Harry", simply having things given to him.

I am also certain that the blade being mounted on a staff is a clear indication that Luccio did not make it. As Harry repeatedly says, "old things get set in their ways", and Luccio definitely qualifies. Harry even mentioned at one point that she was near to candidacy for the Senior Council.

None of that is a stumbling block. If Luccio didn't make a blade that has the enchantments of a Warden's sword, who did?

Let's put it this way. I think that there have been enough hints lately that Harry is about to have a closer relationship with the svartalves. I have little doubt that if he asked them, that one of their craftsmen could make a blade with the same or similar abilities to a Warden's sword. Or better. He has some liquid assets available for fun—um, useful things now.

Yes, I know it's the blade of a spear rather than a sword. Fortuitously, utilizing that form would eliminate some of the nagging inherent issues of a Warden's sword. As in, you wouldn't have to change hands, or set aside your staff and take the time to draw your sword when you needed it. See? Portability.

That degree of innovation Harry (or the svartalves) could provide. And besides--Harry has to have something to blow…ah, spend his diamonds on. And I'm pretty sure that rather than Harry taking the time of carefully selling them, the svartalves would likely—gleefully—take high quality diamonds as cash.

But that for another time.

As far as the staff on the cover not being Harry’s own, well…first point, Eb said at the end of Changes that he’d get Harry a blank from his lightning-struck tree. Harry’s had enough time to make a new staff away from his limitations at Demonreach.

Next, by the time this book rolls around, there’s a whole lot of battle going on, and a whole lot of powerful entities wandering around. Who knows who might have reached into their toy box for a powerful magical item for Harry to play with?
...

Lots of good & interesting thoughts and speculations here.

I just want to add an FYI item -- I know that in Japan, the exact same techniques go into making the blade of a naginata (a Japanese spear/halberd/etc item, often used with many staff-like techniques) as a katana.  Same smiths, same methods.

I suspect the same is true for European blades.

A knife or shortsword, with the handle-treatment stripped away and instead bound onto a long haft, IS a spear... and vice versa: a spearblade, dismounted and with pommel/handle treatment of the unsharpened base, IS a knife or shortsword.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2020, 10:52:51 PM »
They're fixing the pentacle on Battle Ground's cover, but not Peace Talks. https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/storm-front-anniversary-part-2.

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1384
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2020, 02:14:45 AM »
It is interesting how many people DO read this forum. Lot's of complaints about the amulet and lo and behold they update it. Fans, we are listened to. And it answers the debate on the amulet. Well done those who guessed it was a mistake! (Bad Alias, Quantas and Dina) and good eye Mira!
Hi, I'm a moderator. We're here to help. Please remain calm. Don't go outdoors.

Offline AClone

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2020, 03:26:03 AM »
It is interesting how many people DO read this forum. Lot's of complaints about the amulet and lo and behold they update it. Fans, we are listened to. And it answers the debate on the amulet. Well done those who guessed it was a mistake! (Bad Alias, Quantas and Dina) and good eye Mira!

It took me a moment to look realize, but I suspect that instead of being redone, it was simply photoshopped right side up.

Partly because Maggie’s stone still appears to be missing.

And, I have to ask. Anyone have any idea what the reddish rectangle on the lower right of Harry’s shirt/abdomen (his left) might be? I suppose that could be an ember in front of it, but I’m not sure how It would give off a rectangular glow.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Battle Ground Cover Art
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2020, 05:02:16 AM »
My money is on an ember, but that rectangle is weird.

As to the red glow in the staff, I was reading SG, and the staff glowed green and whatever depending on the magic Harry used. I think it was green and white for force and green and blue for light. Maybe it would be green and red for fire.