Author Topic: While re-reading Fool Moon  (Read 4996 times)

Offline exartiem

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While re-reading Fool Moon
« on: April 09, 2020, 05:28:56 PM »
I'm reading the part where Harry meets his 'other self' and I had a weird thought:

What if the other Harry is actually the evil Harry from the Mirror, Mirror universe contacting him mentally?  He could be trying to get our Harry to accept him in order to take him over, a la Corpsetaker.  Harry resists, which makes it necessary for evil Harry to come here physically.

Tries to swap minds first, then swaps bodies when that fails.

Offline 123Chikadee

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2020, 10:44:30 PM »
Ooooh, that's cool. I'm not sure I'd go so far as evil but that's a solid idea.

Offline didymos

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 12:43:50 AM »
I don't think subconscious Harry is Mirror, Mirror Harry, but I'd bet they look alike.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2020, 03:44:48 AM »
Creepy, and cool.

I'd bet chances are Harry from Mirror Mirror at least looks similar, if not exactly the same. He might even have an eye patch. Jim has said there will be goatees and eye patches (implying these are the bad guy versions)

Curiously, Vadderung has an eye patch and Hades has a goatee. Are we sure these are the good guys?
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Offline didymos

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2020, 04:02:18 AM »
Curiously, Vadderung has an eye patch and Hades has a goatee. Are we sure these are the good guys?

Vadderung has to be missing an eye.  He's Odin. As to how good he is...they did used to sacrifice people to him. 

Offline exartiem

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2020, 12:22:09 PM »
Or, M-Harry is trying to darken our Harry.  To make him closer to M-Harry to make it easier to trade places later.

It could even start out as M-Harry trying to guide our Harry into avoiding the mistakes that HE made, but black magic, even with the purest intentions, is still black magic.  As Molly found out.

Offline Mira

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2020, 01:42:50 PM »
Or, M-Harry is trying to darken our Harry.  To make him closer to M-Harry to make it easier to trade places later.

It could even start out as M-Harry trying to guide our Harry into avoiding the mistakes that HE made, but black magic, even with the purest intentions, is still black magic.  As Molly found out.

   I don't think "alter-ego" Harry is evil per-say, he is a more forceful personality for sure.  He
doesn't think things through, he thinks more on the lines of selfishness, in other words, what is good
for Harry works for everyone in his view.  He is an important factor in Harry's decision process,  if you want to use the Star Trek model I am thinking there is a much better episode than "Mirror Mirror."   In "Mirror Mirror" there is a transporter accident and Kirk and company are thrown into a parallel universe where everyone except maybe Spock are the opposite of what we know them to be in their universe.  In the episode I am thinking of, "The Enemy Within,"  it is again a problem with the transporter because of a substance on the planet they are beaming up from.  Anyway, Captain Kirk is split into his two personality types,  the strong ruthless passionate Kirk, [very much like Harry's alter-ego] shortly after he beams up and no one notices, a second Kirk appears, this is the compassionate gentle Kirk, not unlike the Harry we know and love.   The first tries to rape his yeoman and is acting like a dictator, the second cannot make up his mind to do anything because he is afraid someone is going to be hurt.  And because he cannot make up his mind to use the defective transporter, Sulu is about to freeze to death on planet, while the other Kirk says screw him, they need to move on.  Kirk collapses if I remember correct and begins to die becauseboth sides of his personality are important to the making of the man and neither can survive without the other.   On that model Harry needs  both sides of his personality.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 05:04:22 PM by Mira »

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2020, 05:43:11 PM »
What if the other Harry is actually the evil Harry from the Mirror, Mirror universe contacting him mentally?
I think that's unlikely because M-Harry doesn't exist until the end of Grave Peril. Additionally, it probably takes M-Harry a while to become evil.

Offline Mira

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2020, 06:14:30 PM »
I think that's unlikely because M-Harry doesn't exist until the end of Grave Peril. Additionally, it probably takes M-Harry a while to become evil.

    In my opinion, M-Harry isn't evil, he is just very hard assed and makes those kinds of assessments
  of things, which made him easy for Lasciel to talk to.

Offline 123Chikadee

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2020, 07:49:50 PM »
@Bad Alias: Oh, right I forgot about that.
@Mira: Yeah, I don't see him as evil either. Though I'm not too sure that he gets an opportunity to meet Lasciel. But mainly that's more b/c I like the idea that he became more hard assed without any outside intervention, makes it more interesting that way.

Offline SoftManacles4MagiHackers

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2020, 08:46:18 PM »
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Offline Mira

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2020, 10:27:12 PM »
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   I don't think so, simply because the Hunger demon doesn't seem to have a motive except to
eat and survive.  Where as Harry's alter ego does have an agenda of sorts, where Harry would like to have a relationship with Murphy, his alter ego is telling him to bang her and move on..

Offline SoftManacles4MagiHackers

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2020, 10:33:28 PM »
which could also be the result of what bred with mortals to create each species/scion. it could also be a starborn thing. or harry's ID origniated as a foreign entitry and the force of harrys personality changed it to have goals/motivations. you could also argue that thomas's demon does has goals, but used more emotional control to obtain them, without speaking directly but using urges.
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Offline g33k

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2020, 01:45:52 AM »
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Not sure why you've spoilerized ...?  This IS the  Spoilers  thread!

Anyhow...

I think you're recalling Uriel's remarks at the end of Ghost Story -- Thomas is a "scion" (offspring of mortal and immortal) as the son of Papa Raith (immortal) and Mama Maggie (mortal).

I don't know that we can generalize this to all Whamps-as-scions, though.  My sense is that both parents can be Whamps... but I admit I don't actually recall this as set in canon, either way.

It's also possible that all-Whamps-are-scions no matter the parentage, simply because their bodies are Human (q.v. interfertile with Humans) but their Demons are not.  There are both elements in the offspring; they are a child of both human and hunger-demon parentage, regardless of whether both (or only one) parents were Whamps.

===

As Molly was "delivering" Bonea, she spoke with id-Harry, yes; but note that sleep-walking and sleep-talking are both well-known phenomena, dreams and lucid-dreaming, etc etc etc.  A mind-mage of Molly's caliber can almost certainly have induced whatever state of mental awareness she needed Harry to be in... I don't see any evidence that id-Harry is actually a separate/external individual.

Indeed, the fact that id-Harry wears a snowflake (when Harry-Prime becomes WK) strongly indicates that they are fundamentally the same being.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: While re-reading Fool Moon
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2020, 02:34:12 AM »
I think that's unlikely because M-Harry doesn't exist until the end of Grave Peril. Additionally, it probably takes M-Harry a while to become evil.

Also Jim's pitch for MM wasn't that !Harry body-swaps into his multiverse counterparts. He pulls them to his timeline to die in his place when he's cornered and needs his adversaries to find a dead Harry Dresden and go home thinking Mission Accomplished. He only needs a physical copy for that; their spiritual status is irrelevant.