Bloodlines

[Yuillegan]

In Jim Butcher's most recent interview with Daniel Greene, Jim mentions that in order to do magic you need both the study AND the bloodline. He also mentions that in order to be a Wizard, you need the bloodline whereas you are just a sorcerer otherwise. All about where you draw your power on I imagine.

This is interesting for several reasons.

There have been many references in the series about how powerful blood is, and particularly in magic. Blood of Christ is exceptionally strong as a curse for Michael, Harry's relation to Margaret Le Fay and eventually Eb is also played up a lot, mortal magic and blood having unique power and properties, blood sacrifices and bloodline curses and even death magic through a bloodline, not to mention that only people related to royalty can wield the Sword of the Cross.

It also (for me) highlights my theories around Harry's ancestry being important. Merlin was though to be the son of a women (sometimes a witch) and a succubus, or else the Devil himself (as sometimes Merlin was identified as the Antichrist) and his powers were the source of these interactions. I have speculated that if Harry is the Merlin, being the son of Lord Raith (a succubus) or even the Devil would add up. We also have the information that sometimes the scions of unions between mortals and the supernatural beings can look normal but have freakish power. This also could fit.

In Hellboy, it is Hellboy's mother who is really important. His father is Azazel, a Grand Duke of Hell, but his mother is the direct descendant of Mordred. This would also tie in with the King Arthur mythos (that is present subtly throughout the series). This ties Hellboy to being a direct descendant of Arthur and also Morgan Le Fay, able to be both the rightful King of England (mankind) and the witch Morgan (who was the apprentice of Merlin).

Harry at least is a descendant of Merlin through master to apprentice, as Ebenezer's journals go back all the way to Merlin. And often there is the theory that Merlin lived his life in reverse, perhaps Harry will too.

Harry has interesting links to Merlin too. Vadderung supposedly trained Merlin, and Harry has been helped by Dresden too. It wouldn't even totally surprise me if all three were one and the same. More than one person has held multiple identities.

[Bad Alias]

I think the specific use of the word bloodline is more of a DnD reference. "Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces." http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/sorcerer.

Jim has stated that Merlin won't be in the series because he is dead, but then paused and said something about how dead is less of a permanent state in the genre kind of in a maybe he will be in the series way. It could be interpreted as if he had forgotten something about Merlin.

If Harry is descended from Merlin, then I really hope Harry doesn't time travel and become Merlin. Ick.

I really do feel like there's going to be an important Odin, Merlin, Harry thing revealed at some point in the series. My personal wag is that Odin begat Merlin who begat ... who begat Eb who begat Margaret who begat Harry. As a sub wag to that one, in Changes Arianna was ultimately targeting Eb, but the Red King was ultimately targeting Odin.

[Yuillegan]

It is...but I don't think that makes it any less significant. He almost is shouting at us in that interview that Harry has an exotic bloodline.

Yeah - as has been discussed in depth, death is a very fuzzy concept in the Dresden Files. And a relative term.

Don't watch Dark (on Netflix), BA. If you think Harry being his own descendant is rough, you ain't seen nothing. Seriously loopy stuff in that show. But also awesome.

A good theory about Odin being the progenitor. I think you are really onto something with the Red King actually targeting beyond Eb. Tbh, it seemed like a lot of effort for a couple of Wizards. Considering the power behind the ritual/spell...seems a waste just for two Wizards. Either they were hoping to wipe out the White Court, or someone Eb was related to. Odin fits as good as any - and Odin v the Red King fits better too. Odin took almost personal interest in that matter, he even showed up to Chichen Itza. I think he was just as ready to wipe them out if necessary. I don't think he went to the wall at all.

[Bad Alias]

It's not that I think it sickens me. It's that it would diminish my enjoyment of the story. Half the time it's not addressed so it seems like a mistake on the author's part. The other half my response is more "why would anyone write this?" I've seen something where a time traveling character was both father and mother to himself. I also think he was hunting himself and eventually kills himself (not in a traditional suicide scenario). I just don't get the point. I'm just not really into time-travel incest as a plot point. Except for Fry from Futurama. They did it brilliantly.

[didymos]

It's not that I think it sickens me. It's that it would diminish my enjoyment of the story. Half the time it's not addressed so it seems like a mistake on the author's part. The other half my response is more "why would anyone write this?" I've seen something where a time traveling character was both father and mother to himself.

Sounds like Heinlein's story All You Zombies.

[Bad Alias]

Not Dresden Files Spoiler:
@didymos:

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, it was the Ethan Hawke film adaptation.

[Avernite]

A good theory about Odin being the progenitor. I think you are really onto something with the Red King actually targeting beyond Eb. Tbh, it seemed like a lot of effort for a couple of Wizards. Considering the power behind the ritual/spell...seems a waste just for two Wizards. Either they were hoping to wipe out the White Court, or someone Eb was related to. Odin fits as good as any - and Odin v the Red King fits better too. Odin took almost personal interest in that matter, he even showed up to Chichen Itza. I think he was just as ready to wipe them out if necessary. I don't think he went to the wall at all.

Not too sure; we know Odin took a personal interest, but so did Lea (and Mab though she was bribed), TWG (three Knights in one throw), the White Council...

and we're hit on the nose with the why: if the spell was weak, Eb could've ridden it out in Edinburgh behind the Wards, and probably be alright. If it's overpowered (and it took only some extra slaves to OVERpower it), he has to come out to the battleground of your choosing to die - and probably some other White Council hitters with it. Coupled with the disease in Edinburgh, it's a win-the-war move.

[Yuillegan]

BA - Ah yes I remember that film...I didn't mind it actually but quite a different genre and feeling. I doubt Butcher would go that far though. But in general I think if you are going to do Time Travel, you are going to run into a few paradoxes. Just goes with the territory.

Avernite - Well part of the deal Mab had with Dresden to get him to be Winter Knight was to allow him that personal mission. In the broader sense I think she was happy to wipe out the Red Court, they had violated her territory and accords on numerous occasions and as Nicodemus puts it were "difficult in the short term, and dangerous in the mid-to-long term" or something to that effect. So Lea was thrown in to assist that endeavor, more than it being her personal interest. Although one could argue Harry's success was in her personal interest...he being her godson after all.

The Knights of the Cross were also all friends with Harry, one of which at that point was the child they were trying to rescue's mother and Harry's ex. And Murphy is Harry's best friend and sometimes love interest. Not to mention it seems that an Archangel wanted them there...the Swords only really show up wherever they are meant to.

Technically it was the Grey Council who showed up, the White Council (as far as we know) didn't show up officially and certainly not in force. Partially because of that contagion at Headquaters, and partially corruption/bureaucracy.

The spell wasn't weak though, and brute force isn't the only way through a defense. A cleverer attack would have been more useful, and more efficient. They used power because that's what they like. But perhaps also because they were trying to reach other people than Eb and Dresden. And as far as anyone knows, Eb didn't know until he met Vadderung about what they were trying. Vadderung seems to be the one who had the inside info. I don't see why Eb would have brought the White Council, in point of fact he chose not to.

I am not saying it's definite, but it does seem wasteful just to target Eb.

[g33k]

I guess it's time for me to trot out my own personal WAG here...

Harry is a blood relative (a relatively close one) of >Heinrich Kemmler<.  His bloodline is intimately linked to >necromancy<.

1.  Grave Peril -- In the climactic battle, Harry wins by using "combat necromancy."  Yeah, yeah, I know -- all the Bianca & Mavra & Nightmare stuff had been "weakening the veil" yada yada yada.

Whatever, not impressed.  Typical Butcher smoke-and-mirrors.

Without ANY practice using necromancy (because 5th Law) or knowledge of spells (q.v. 5th Law), Harry just spontaneously summoned ghosts and shades and specters and wraiths and whatever by the hundreds.

We didn't see that kind of action again until the "Heirs of Kemmler" came to town, with their decades of experience in necromancy -- and they too were conducting rituals to make ghost-summoning easier, prep'ing for the Darkhallow.

Harry did the self-same thing; only HE did it without study or practice, as a weaker "junior wizard" (book 3).  Harry's own evaluation, from tangling with the Heirs (in book 7, where he was much stronger) was that any of them was MORE than a match for him in raw power.  But to judge from Book 3... evidently not.

2. Also in GP:  Sue.  This impressed everybody.  Centuries-old Luccio, head of the WC's combat-wizards.  Those Heirs who saw it.

The freaking Erlking!



3. Ghost Story -- In the scene where Corpsetaker had swiped Butters' body, just before she "killed" the Harry-manifested ectoplasm-body, she said "You were able to manifest after all?  Intriguing.  You've a natural gift for darker magic, I think.  My master would have snapped you up in an instant."

Harry has the kind of profound gifts that come inherited in the bloodline; and they're gifts of necromancy.

[Fox]

I watched that interview too, Daniel was specifically asking about Harry in terms of D&D Wizards. In D&D Wizards get their magic by studying, Sorcerers are just born with it (mostly). Jim clarified that in the Dresden Files Wizards are a bit of a combination of the two- a wizard has to be born with the potential to use magic on a certain level, as well as learn how to use magic etc.

He also mentioned that in D&D terms Harry would be a Warlock because of his deal with Mab. D&D Warlocks get their powers by making a deal with some powerful entity- they’re not just dark magic users like in the Dresden Files.

While I don’t necessarily disagree that Harry might have some powerful or exotic ancestry, I don’t think this quote is the evidence of it.

[Mira]

I watched that interview too, Daniel was specifically asking about Harry in terms of D&D Wizards. In D&D Wizards get their magic by studying, Sorcerers are just born with it (mostly). Jim clarified that in the Dresden Files Wizards are a bit of a combination of the two- a wizard has to be born with the potential to use magic on a certain level, as well as learn how to use magic etc.

He also mentioned that in D&D terms Harry would be a Warlock because of his deal with Mab. D&D Warlocks get their powers by making a deal with some powerful entity- they’re not just dark magic users like in the Dresden Files.

While I don’t necessarily disagree that Harry might have some powerful or exotic ancestry, I don’t think this quote is the evidence of it.

I thought the deal was with Lea?  Also Jim has said in the past that what she did was merely confidence building and no power per say, I also thought that the reason why he was declared a warlock was because he killed with magic when he killed Justin.

[Bad Alias]

more than it being her personal interest. Although one could argue Harry's success was in her personal interest...he being her godson after all.

She specifically says she didn't owe it to Mab to do as much as she did. She wanted revenge for the Nemesis infected gift.

@g33k: I don't know if you're right or if I agree with you, but I like it. To ad to it, Dresden does seem like a German last name. Maybe there was something special about Malcolm's ancestry as well?

[Fox]

I thought the deal was with Lea?  Also Jim has said in the past that what she did was merely confidence building and no power per say, I also thought that the reason why he was declared a warlock was because he killed with magic when he killed Justin.

I think Jim was referring obliquely to Harry becoming Winter Knight (the guy interviewing him had just finished White Night, so Jim was being a little bit carful about spoilers for him)- he did specifically mention Mab, not Lea.

The Wizard/Warlock/Sorcerer mentions in regards to Harry were about what class of character he would be if you tried to make him in Dungeons and Dragons. Jim’s point was that he uses the above terms differently in his works than they’re used in D&D.

This is out of universe stuff, the Daniel I mentioned is the name of the person interviewing Jim, not Daniel Carpenter FYI. Sorry if that was confusing.

[Mira]

I think Jim was referring obliquely to Harry becoming Winter Knight (the guy interviewing him had just finished White Night, so Jim was being a little bit carful about spoilers for him)- he did specifically mention Mab, not Lea.

 In Summer Knight, Mab does say that she had taken over the contract that Harry had with Lea.  It is clear from that point on what she wants Harry for.

[morriswalters]

Jim has stated that Merlin won't be in the series because he is dead, but then paused and said something about how dead is less of a permanent state in the genre kind of in a maybe he will be in the series way. It could be interpreted as if he had forgotten something about Merlin.

If Harry is descended from Merlin, then I really hope Harry doesn't time travel and become Merlin. Ick.

Put your ick away. That puts the paradox before the horse and I hope Jim is a better writer than that.  Your assuming that Merlin had kids and the myth as I remember it has Morgana putting him in an enchanted sleep in a tree.  Which works well since he can wake up in the now and kick some BAT ass.