Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"

[Bad Alias]

It stands to reason, at least to me, that if she intended to, she would not make them a part of the conspiracy.

Using them makes sense because it's a win-win. If the succeed, that's a win. If they die, that's a win.

Maybe the Archive puts no limits on the host other than the limits that knowing and understanding the truth puts on anyone.

[Mira]

Using them makes sense because it's a win-win. If the succeed, that's a win. If they die, that's a win.

Maybe the Archive puts no limits on the host other than the limits that knowing and understanding the truth puts on anyone.

  I don't think that is true because Kincaid told Harry that

"When she says she can't tell you, she is being literal.  She physically cannot let such information leave her head."

  So unless someone is lying, giving Harry the little information she did was not easy.

We have seen this before. Lea, the mothers, ....

They all wanted to help Harry at some point and they couldn't because of their nature. Riddles and unclear conversation are the answer to that and as pythia the archive had a lot of experience in that way of giving information.

Using that loophole is what they do.

I think it is a bit different,  simply because not telling Harry isn't part of human Ivy's nature, however if not it's nature it is the rules the Archive lives by.

[Bad Alias]

So unless someone is lying.

Ivy is lying. Jim Butcher said so.

[Mira]

Ivy is lying. Jim Butcher said so.

I read what Jim said, and it seemed pretty vague to me..  It's called leaving his options open.

[g33k]

It stands to reason, at least to me, that if she intended to (end the Whites), she would not make them a part of the conspiracy.

Ivy's network of assassins -- at least, the piece of it we see in Lara and Thomas -- seem to work on a basis of small "cells."

This gives the Archive plenty of scope to decide that one cell (or a subset of cells, such as all the ones with White Court members) is ready to be eliminated, and keep those cells all mushroom-y until said elimination is ready to happen in one fell swoop...

[morriswalters]

Of course Lara being Lara, she would create her own cells.  Maybe have someone nonhuman on the payroll to have communications that Ivy can't see.  One might think Vadderung might be a perfect keeper of secrets.  Or maybe Papa Raith had a secure record keeping  system that was blocked from Ivy.

But this is Jim creating rat holes where there need not be any.  The first rule of hiring assassins, never let there be a trail back to you.  What they don't know they can't betray.  But I must admit, whom am I to question his decisions, I live in a condo and Jim lives in a custom built house in Colorado.

[Mira]

Of course Lara being Lara, she would create her own cells.  Maybe have someone nonhuman on the payroll to have communications that Ivy can't see.  One might think Vadderung might be a perfect keeper of secrets.  Or maybe Papa Raith had a secure record keeping  system that was blocked from Ivy.

If it is written down supposedly the Archive knows, now Ivy might not, but the Archive does.

[g33k]

Of course Lara being Lara, she would create her own cells.  Maybe have someone nonhuman on the payroll to have communications that Ivy can't see ...

That's an interesting thought... someone completely nonhuman to Ivy-proof records, because she sees whatever a HUMAN commits in writing.  The question then becomes, how nonhuman does one have to be...?  Mab suggested that Thomas was human enough to be the WK; was she lying deceiving?  If he is "human enough" to be WK, can Ivy see his writings?  What about the Fae?  Jim has said there is a touch of the mortal in every single faerie.  But this is all WAG off of a WAG, speculating based on a speculation...

Jim revealed a LOT of stuff in his intro to that short.

But in the story itself?  Lara got orders from... somewhere... and passed them on to Thomas (via Justine).

I don't think it specified where Lara got her orders.  It may have been directly from Ivy, or there may have been one or more cut-outs in between.

But I don't think the actual in-character writings have ever so much as hinted that any of the Venatori knew their ultimate commander was the Archive; I think none of them realize the Archive is privy to all writing, including digital storage.

And in these days of digital phones... even verbal communications may be captured by the Archive; all except for in-person / un-recorded ones.

[morriswalters]

I have no idea.  The point is that the Whites are murderers. Sexier than the Reds,  I mean who wouldn't want to die in bed with a beautiful partner. But murder is murder and rape is rape, and that describes the main branch of the Whites.   The short story seems to be a tonal shift on Jim's part.

However on the issue of neutrality a point is lost. Perhaps Archive's bias is towards non interference, rather than neutrality.  She must know who Cowl is.  And since he is calling in Outsiders  it would seem to be in the interest of it's purpose to kill Cowl, or to reveal him so someone not connected to her could kill him. \shrug/  Anyway.

[Mira]

I have no idea.  The point is that the Whites are murderers. Sexier than the Reds,  I mean who wouldn't want to die in bed with a beautiful partner. But murder is murder and rape is rape, and that describes the main branch of the Whites.   The short story seems to be a tonal shift on Jim's part.

  Maybe it becomes a matter of your murderers and rapists are my heroic soldiers?

However on the issue of neutrality a point is lost. Perhaps Archive's bias is towards non interference, rather than neutrality.  She must know who Cowl is.  And since he is calling in Outsiders  it would seem to be in the interest of it's purpose to kill Cowl, or to reveal him so someone not connected to her could kill him. \shrug/  Anyway.

Yeah, I wonder if Jim has worked it out fully as of yet?  Neutral in the sense that the Archive doesn't openly take sides.  Yet supposedly it will alert Lara and Thomas to threats to take out, but not in it's name nor will it openly order it.  The other point is the Archive aside from keeping the written memory of mankind also is the keeper of the memory of the dead..  At some point it decides whether or not to eliminate that memory thus wiping out totally whoever that was.. At least that is how I understand it.   

[Arjan]

Yeah, I wonder if Jim has worked it out fully as of yet?  Neutral in the sense that the Archive doesn't openly take sides.  Yet supposedly it will alert Lara and Thomas to threats to take out, but not in it's name nor will it openly order it.  The other point is the Archive aside from keeping the written memory of mankind also is the keeper of the memory of the dead..  At some point it decides whether or not to eliminate that memory thus wiping out totally whoever that was.. At least that is how I understand it.

Historically the word neutral has had different interpretations by different people and nations. Jim can use all of them as it suits him.

[Mira]

Historically the word neutral has had different interpretations by different people and nations. Jim can use all of them as it suits him.

  Indeed, Switzerland comes to mind, universally acknowledged as neutral, however quite often
their banking system ends up favoring one side over another, but not deliberately but because they do not take sides. 

[Bad Alias]

On the issue of Lara hiding from the Archive, she would first have to know that she needs to. There is nothing to indicate that she does.