Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"

[Mira]

In Kim's case his takeaway might be something like, you can't be a little bit pregnant.  Either go all in or don't involve yourself at all.  The whole metaphor of The Doom Of Damocles is saying that if you are going to do something like take someone under your wing, then do it like your success is defined by theirs.  That you share their fate.

  Or you go back to your Father Forthill quote..  Harry didn't know what was going on in Kim's head.  She insisted on lying to him about what she was doing,wouldn't tell him anything, almost as soon as she stomped off, Murphy showed up and wanted him because there had a been a gruesome supernatural murder.  He felt he had done the right thing not telling Kim for a number of reasons, and it was the right thing.   Bottom line, Kim was in over her head, the very fact that she had to go to Harry to explain how the circle was made says she was in over her head.  Her deadly mistake was not admitting that fact to herself, her choices, to lie.

[Bad Alias]

In Kim's case his takeaway might be something like, you can't be a little bit pregnant.  Either go all in or don't involve yourself at all.

But that's exactly what he's doing in his travels with the Paranet.

I don't know if the thread is still around, but there was one a while back where I suggested (or agreed with whoever suggested it) that Harry's lesson learned of "limiting information got people hurt or killed" was the wrong lesson because that hasn't ever happened. We went round and round, as we are wont to do, and I think my conclusion was that maybe he did it once, but it was usually someone else withholding information (or shutting him out) that lead to all/most of the trouble.

Storm Front: His client, Murphy
Fool Moon: Kim, Murphy
Grave Peril: His client (Thomas, but not harmful)
Summer Knight: Well, it's expected from faeries, but also Elaine
Death Masks: Withholding of information by "allies" not harmful, but happened
Blood Rites: Thomas
Dead Beat: Harry withholds information from the Council, probably caused harm
Proven Guilty: Molly, obviously
White Night: The "havenots" of the magical community, Thomas (sort of, but understandable), Helen Beckett
Small Favor: "Well, faeries" once again
Turn Coat: Morgan withheld info, but I'm not sure it caused harm
Changes: Susan, obviously
Ghost Story: Uriel
Cold Days: Sarissa, a little bit
Skin Game: Harry (a la Butters), but Nic's listening in

[Mira]

   Yeah, Harry gets pounding for supposedly withholding information from Kim.. Excuse me, but it looks like she withheld  a whole boatload of stuff from Harry.  She lied about why she needed to know about the circle and what she wanted it for, that information was pretty vital...  Harry withheld information because he was supposed to under the rules of the Council, also that kind of circle, and what it is used for didn't belong in the hands of amateurs, way too dangerous.  Harry was up front about that..  Kim never came clean with him and died for it.

[morriswalters]

But that's exactly what he's doing in his travels with the Paranet.

it's about obligation.  Either teach Kim or don't teach her, but don't half teach her.  This is Jim's theory of operation as demonstrated by the Doom Of Damocles.

[Mira]

it's about obligation.  Either teach Kim or don't teach her, but don't half teach her.  This is Jim's theory of operation as demonstrated by the Doom Of Damocles.

  He never presented himself as her teacher.  He knew her, they were friends, he answered a question from time to time.   Even if he had, it doesn't absolve her from lying to him..  The lie was her choice, puts it ALL on her head.   To disregard Harry's warnings, her choice, ALL on her head..

[Arjan]

  He never presented himself as her teacher.  He knew her, they were friends, he answered a question from time to time.   Even if he had, it doesn't absolve her from lying to him..  The lie was her choice, puts it ALL on her head.   To disregard Harry's warnings, her choice, ALL on her head..

She probably felt she had no choice. Harry is white council after all and they have a certain reputation. Imagine what could have happened if Harry had called the wardens in. Now imagine what Kim thought would happen if Harry called the wardens in. She tried to safe McFinn and that was her first loyalty.

[Bad Alias]

She didn't know about the White Council. Harry was the only wizard she had ever heard of. Kind of goes to show how ignorant she is and how little Harry has shared with her. Billy knows about the war with the Red Court, the White Council, and the meeting by two books later.

[Arjan]

She didn't know about the White Council. Harry was the only wizard she had ever heard of. Kind of goes to show how ignorant she is and how little Harry has shared with her. Billy knows about the war with the Red Court, the White Council, and the meeting by two books later.

And yet she knew enough not to trust him and not enough to trust him. Harry's impression on other people differs from the impression we get from his head. I am sure that if Jim had written the story from her point of view more people would have sympathised with her.

[Mira]

She probably felt she had no choice. Harry is white council after all and they have a certain reputation. Imagine what could have happened if Harry had called the wardens in. Now imagine what Kim thought would happen if Harry called the wardens in. She tried to safe McFinn and that was her first loyalty.

  Which is why it was really stupid for her to lie to Harry in the first place..  No, in over her head and too much ego to admit it..  Not sure what she promised MacFinn, most likely she lied to him as well about her skill level.. 

She didn't know about the White Council. Harry was the only wizard she had ever heard of. Kind of goes to show how ignorant she is and how little Harry has shared with her. Billy knows about the war with the Red Court, the White Council, and the meeting by two books later.

Exactly, not to mention she seemed to be clueless about what a serious business it is to be a wizard.
She acted a lot like Micky Mouse in the "Sorcerer's Apprentice" in the movie, "Fantasia."  He also thought how hard could it be to do magic?  All he needed to do was wear the hat, and the broom would do his bidding... We know what happened, but he got lucky, Kim wasn't.

And yet she knew enough not to trust him and not enough to trust him. Harry's impression on other people differs from the impression we get from his head. I am sure that if Jim had written the story from her point of view more people would have sympathised with her.

If she didn't trust him she shouldn't ask him questions about important stuff...  As far as trust goes, who was doing the lying here?  Off the top, how trustworthy is a liar? 

[Arjan]

She didn't know about the White Council. Harry was the only wizard she had ever heard of. Kind of goes to show how ignorant she is and how little Harry has shared with her. Billy knows about the war with the Red Court, the White Council, and the meeting by two books later.

She might have known more than Harry knew. She probably knew more. 

But not telling her about the white council also meant not telling her about the laws of magic which is highly irresponsible.

[morriswalters]

  Which is why it was really stupid for her to lie to Harry in the first place..  No, in over her head and too much ego to admit it..  Not sure what she promised MacFinn, most likely she lied to him as well about her skill level.. 

Exactly, not to mention she seemed to be clueless about what a serious business it is to be a wizard.

Yeah she had no one to teach her.  Young enough still to be arrogant and overconfident.  A Molly prototype as it were.

[Mira]

Yeah she had no one to teach her.  Young enough still to be arrogant and overconfident.  A Molly prototype as it were.

  You might say that,  and Molly nearly lost her head because she took it upon herself without training to break one of the Laws and mess with the heads of her friends no matter how good her intentions. 

As far as we know, Kim never asked to become Harry's apprentice.  Harry, either the same age or just a couple of years older never presumed to become her master..  Actually once he realized what she was asking him about and what it could be used for, he tried to warn her against it.  Not just because a lot of people could get hurt, but also because the Council would see it as a warlock move and she could lose her head over it.  Kim lied to him from the get go about the what and the why she wanted the information, never said a word about the dangerous Loop that needed containing, just got pissed when Harry said she wasn't qualified to do it, and it was against the rules for him to give that knowledge.  He might have gone into summoning circles and the kinds of monsters that are associated with that kind of circle, but do you think that would have really made an impression on Kim?  Like Molly, she had already determined that she was the one that could pull the thing off.. It was a fatal mistake.

[morriswalters]

Yeah, like the Korean kid.  Do you not see the connection between Kim and the Korean kid?  Harry pitches a fit at the start of PG over just this type of thing.  Your starting place is the same as the Councils.  she did it, she owns it.  If she crosses the line, off with her head. Or too bad she's dead in this case. If instead of the circle, what if instead it had been mind magic?  However as much fun as this has been we are just tilling the same soil and getting nowhere.

[Avernite]

Yeah, like the Korean kid.  Do you not see the connection between Kim and the Korean kid?  Harry pitches a fit at the start of PG over just this type of thing.  Your starting place is the same as the Councils.  she did it, she owns it.  If she crosses the line, off with her head. Or too bad she's dead in this case. If instead of the circle, what if instead it had been mind magic?  However as much fun as this has been we are just tilling the same soil and getting nowhere.

No.

Harry even tells us the difference in PG:
"That boy had noone to tell him the rules, to teach him"

Kim had. She just refused to listen.

[morriswalters]

No.

Harry even tells us the difference in PG:
"That boy had noone to tell him the rules, to teach him"

Kim had. She just refused to listen.

The argument has been that Harry wasn't Kim's teacher. Clear this up for me if you would. Was he or not?