Some thoughts on the Circle

[kbrizzle]

A circle has no beginning or an end - sort of like a metaphor for the Outsider attack on reality.

My WAG is that a Circle of sorts has existed for centuries, with a fairly high member turnover every few generations. I would conjecture that a lot of the more powerful/ insane bad guys we’ve seen in the series so far have been members of different iterations of the Circle & are now at cross-purposes with each other.

Here are what I think the 3 most recent were:

• The Old Circle: Spearheaded by Kemmler, members included Lord Raith, Simon Petrovich (how Cowl comes to know Kemmler without being a disciple) amongst others. Outsiders gave Kemmler the knowledge he needed to stay alive & pull off a lot of his hoodoo. This group wanted to remake the mortal world (through World Wars) with humans being subservient to supernatural types. Big plays included removing the Black Court as players (showing the advantage of manipulating swathes of humans as well as remove those who take issue with necromancy) as well as 2 World Wars. Neutralized by Kemmler’s death in 1961.
• Boomer Circle: Spearheaded by Lord Raith, members included Maggie Sr, Ariana Ortega, Lea, Justin DuMorne, Nicodemus (how Lash knows of Harry’s Starborn potential) amongst others. Raith realizes that he must avoid Kemmler’s fate, so he strikes a deal with the Outsiders to give him immunity to magic, as well as knowledge. He comes up with Project Starborn (whom Raith believes he will control & will be his cat’s paws). The goal of this circle is a more .... equitable world order. The big play is supposed to Project Starborn, which ends when Maggie Sr leaves (perhaps Elaine is a child born of this project). This version of the Circle is neutralized with Raith’s impotence. Of course we know that at least 2 Starborn were born with Justin around to pick up the pieces.
• The current Circle: Spearheaded by Cowl (Simon), members include Peabody (recruited by Cowl), Vittorio Malvora, Madeline Raith, Paolo Ortega, Thorned Namshiel, Mavra (who is wary since a previous Circle basically made the Blamps extinct - this is why she goes against them in DB) etc. Realizing that knowledge & magical immunity are not enough, this time the Outsiders escalate the use of Nemesis in the conspiracy (I wonder if there are any characters who’ve been Nfected for decades/ centuries - most of the ones we see only seem to have been Nfected for a few years). The big play here is the Ramp war (& most of the case files). Still extant, although seemingly on the ropes.

So basically each Circle has Outsider sponsorship of some sort, with their level of intervention increasing with every iteration of the Circle. The goal of every Circle seems to be creating a new world order, however I’m pretty sure that the Outsiders would be able to suborn the new order fairly easily.

[Bad Alias]

I like what you've done. I also think the Circle has likely been around for a very long time. I'd guess it's major, but usually not the very top, players from various supernatural nations. Using the Red Court as an example, almost certainly not the Red King, probably not any of the LotON, probably one or more Vamps on Ariana's level, and maybe some on Ortega's level (if he was lower), probably not anyone as lowly as Baroness Bianca, and almost certainly not anyone below her. Players at and below Bianca's level would be ripe for pawns of the Circle, though.

I also think the membership would be a revolving door of the most duplicitous members of each nation. They each have their own goals and would be willing to betray one another at the drop of a hat. They betray one another constantly, and the betrayals are rarely enough for a member to be ostracized if caught. Members would often be willing to do a great deal of damage to their own nations if it meant that they would have more absolute power if the scheme is successful.

And, of course, this is all dependent on the Circle actually existing at all.

[kbrizzle]

Thanks! I agree & I would add the caveat that around the end of every millennium, the Outsiders become increasingly involved in the Circle plots - WoJ is that around the end of the last millennium, there was a new Mother Summer, Summer Queen (Titania), Summer Lady, Winter Queen (Mab) & Winter Lady.

The use of the #2/3 courtiers in every court is smart since they likely want the top job but don’t have the resources to get it by themselves.

A side WAG is that both the Circle & the Black Council exist. The Circle is has a diverse membership of powerful supernatural types where as the Black Council is full of pawns & cats paws like the Raith twins. The Circle overtly or covertly controls the Black Council.

[Bad Alias]

My view is that the Black Council is hidden group of mortal practitioners. Otherwise, the name just doesn't work to well. Though, the Grey Council includes non-mortal practitioners, so ...

[g33k]

My current WAG is that "the Circle" (aka "Black Council," treating them as the same for the nonce) doesn't really exist, as such:  that it's mostly-disconnected individuals, not cooperating or coordinating with one another.

The unity-of-purpose (and appearance of coordinated action) comes from the united purpose of the Outsiders (who are canonically (i.e. according to unreliable-narrator Harry Dresden (upon which my whole WAG hangs)) utterly unified), not from coordination by the people allegedly on the Circle/BC.  Some of the Outsiders' servants are very-powerful wizards and Vamp nobles and such, who create Hexenwulf belts for Law-Enforcement, and give heart-ripper spells to small-time wizards (or surface the Word of Kemmler).
 
But the fact that all these plots are coming to fruition where Harry gets to enjoy the harvest isn't because the people enacting those plots from behind the scenes are cooperating with one another to bring all these things to a crescendo.  It's because the Outsiders are doing so.  Like wrenches and screwdrivers in a toolbox aren't "cooperating" with one another, even when they work on the same project.

Realistically -- which the Dresden Files admittedly are not! -- I don't think a diverse group could have actively worked together for so long, interacting with cats-paws (of dubious and varying loyalty) and the rest of the supernatural community, and still maintained secrecy.

It's more like small "cells" of operatives than a "circle" ... each top agent within the world (and/or the Nevernever) runs their own cell of agents.  These top agents may, occasionally, interact or cooperate -- when so directed by the Outsiders -- but they don't form a "Circle" or "Council" that is self-organized as a group.
 
That said, there's no reason my own view is incompatible with the OP:  when the outsiders get a highly-functional group of top-tier servants, they may operate those same individuals for decades on end, going back to the same toolbox because something there always works.  But then they lose one because a Starborn tool takes out the Red Court (or some such nonsense), and the Outsiders' toolbox no longer can be relied upon to solve the problem; and at that power level, there probably aren't 1:1 replacements readily available...

So -- sometimes -- a whole new (or mostly-new) toolbox.

[Bad Alias]

Realistically -- which the Dresden Files admittedly are not! -- I don't think a diverse group could have actively worked together for so long, interacting with cats-paws (of dubious and varying loyalty) and the rest of the supernatural community, and still maintained secrecy.

I 'd say such conspiracies can't maintain absolute secrecy. They might be able to maintain security at an operational level. Meaning that "everyone" would know about the CIA, but most people would have no idea what the CIA is doing or even was doing recently (where recently covers at least a few years).

As far as stories I read go, I'd prefer a shadowy conspiracy. It's just more fun, imo.

[g33k]

I 'd say such conspiracies can't maintain absolute secrecy. They might be able to maintain security at an operational level. Meaning that "everyone" would know about the CIA, but most people would have no idea what the CIA is doing or even was doing recently (where recently covers at least a few years) ...

Agreed; kind of the point of my post.

The inescapable question then -- with no good answer, AFAICT -- is "Why is the White Council in such denial?  Everyone knows there's some sort of OccultCobraCommand running around!  You guys just look like ignorant dweebs by denying it!"

There's surely enough powerful WC wizards NOT on the Senior Council who would know, and therefore the secret couldn't even be "held in confidence" by the SC ...

Unless, of course, it really is a pretty new phenomenon.

[didymos]

The inescapable question then -- with no good answer, AFAICT -- is "Why is the White Council in such denial?  Everyone knows there's some sort of OccultCobraCommand running around!  You guys just look like ignorant dweebs by denying it!"

Part of it has been explained as the Merlin worrying that people will think the BC looks pretty good, so he doesn't want to officially acknowledge it for fear of people joining up.

[g33k]

Part of it has been explained as the Merlin worrying that people will think the BC looks pretty good, so he doesn't want to officially acknowledge it for fear of people joining up.

I hadn't seen that, at least not as anything official.  Cite?

I mean... that WOULD be kind of a declaration of war -- "we are the law-breaking (yes, those Laws!) Warlock-friendly Council.  Quit the prissy WC and join us.  We have the best chocolate!" ... The WC would kind of HAVE TO make membership & even attempted membership an auto-kill, not even needing SoulGaze & other investigation:  wanting to join is the same as wanting to pursue black magic, so snicker-snack my Beamish boy!

I can see the argument that a known BC would demonstrate a major failing in the WC's presumptive "Badass in Chief" of wizardry... Proof they were unable to find/stop a big ol' passel o' warlocks from growing up, getting together, and forming a rival Glee Club.  The Merlin may think that would be, itself, a nearly fatal blow to the WC.

But I don't recall any such explanations in canon or in WoJ.

Besides -- as I mentioned, there are just too many powerful WC wizards (NOT on the Senior Council) who would discover/notice/etc a sustained multi-decade BC covert-op.  The Senior Council would have to pre-emptively tell all those wizards "yeah, these jerks.  We're working on it.  Meanwhile, don't tell anyone else... or else!!!"

I just don't see that working out well, either.

So I think there's other issues in play.

[didymos]

I hadn't seen that, at least not as anything official.  Cite?

“Well, Hoss,” he said, “maybe Langtry’s worried about the consequences of officially acknowledging the Black Council.”
I felt a little chill glide over the nape of my neck. “He’s worried that if enough people knew that the Black Council was real, they wouldn’t line up to fight them. They’d join.”
“Everyone loves a winner,” Ebenezar said. “And we haven’t been looking too good lately. People are afraid. Cristos is building his influence on it.”

Butcher, Jim. Turn Coat (The Dresden Files, Book 11) (pp. 512-513). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Granted, it's not certain. It's still just a possible explanation.

[Bad Alias]

Morgan also says something to that effect in Turn Coat. If the Black Council is an appendage of some other group or involves a lot of other super natural nations, it could be played off as "not wizards" doing the events that most of the White Council only hears about in vague details.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the wizards who know about Black Council shenanigans are Wardens, which there are only a couple of hundred. And most of the Wardens wouldn't know too much. Carlos, a regional commander, knows something is up, but would Bill Meyers (Harry's subordinate in Dallas). I think a lot of wizards wouldn't be as knowledgeable as we presume. They could be busy sitting the pyramids or getting real married. Ignorance would be especially true of the events surrounding Harry. Harry does his best to steer clear of the rest of the Council.