Faeries tithe to Hell

[g33k]

Considering Uriel was walking around the Carpenter's place at the time, I don't see how he was in Michael's body.

It's called "bilocation" -- being in two (or more) places at once -- and it's a widely embraced idea in multiple religions, folklores, etc.  I'm sure that Jim knows of it. 

The concept of bilocation has appeared in early Greek philosophy,[2] shamanism,[3] paganism,[4] folklore,[3] occultism, magic,[5] the paranormal,[6] Hinduism (as one of the siddhis),[7] spiritualism, Theosophy,[8] the New Age[9] and mysticism in general,[10] as well as Christian mysticism[11] and Jewish mysticism.[12]

(_{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilocation#History})

But even if the words weren't Michael's (and I'm not at all convinced that Michael wouldn't have said everything (what's the cite that indicates someone else speaking?)) we know from Murphy at Chichen Itza that someone holding a Sword for the Divine sometimes becomes a Speaker for the Divine, too.  Maybe Uriel, but maybe another angel, or even TWG inspiring the speech directly.

[didymos]

It's called "bilocation" -- being in two (or more) places at once -- and it's a widely embraced idea in multiple religions, folklores, etc.  I'm sure that Jim knows of it.  (_{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilocation#History})

Yes, but there's no evidence angels can do that in the Dresdenverse.

[g33k]

Yes, but there's no evidence angels can do that in the Dresdenverse.

Unless this scene is that evidence.  ;-)   I note that bilocation appears MUCH more clearly -- in Christian tradition -- as something Saints do, moreso than angels.  For whatever that is worth, since we're talking Dresdenverse rather than RW tradition.

I think we should take the phenomenon of "bilocation" as a given in the Dresdenverse:  Jim has made it clear it's a VERY "kitchen sink" sort of 'verse.

Googling around -- not following the links just seeing what the results list on the first page looks like -- I see both arguments that angels can, and that they cannot, bilocate.  Pretty clearly, it's whatever Jim wants, with adequate support either way.
 

[Mira]

Actually, the double-cross was planned from long before that point.

The whole thing with Marcone setting up a supernaturals' vault, to be a doorway into Hades' realm (with Hades the first investor):  that was setting up the (eventual) double-cross.

Going to Vadderung?  That was just the loop of the plot needed for Harry to trust whatever agent the plotters were using (Goodman Grey in this case).  Mab could equally have made that call, maybe even Marcone; but Harry wouldn't have been as ready to trust any agent that either one recommended.
 
Vadderung has the role of "the guy Harry can trust" in the long con being run against the plots of the bad guys (and as he's still a relative pawn, the long con is running against Harry too).

 That is my point, I think it was set up by Mab when she asked for the favor to begin with from Nic and Andruiel.

Considering Uriel was walking around the Carpenter's place at the time, I don't see how he was in Michael's body.

Read pages 304 through 306 of Skin Game and you will see what I mean..  It ends with Harry saying
The italics are Jim's.

Uriel, I thought. You sneaky bastard.  But you weren't telling me anything I didn't already suspect"

Uriel is an archangel, so just because a mortal body in his guise remained at the Carpenter house, doesn't mean it was really him..  It could have been Michael in a different guise.. I know it is very tin hat, but read those pages, it just got me wondering..

[didymos]

Read pages 304 through 306 of Skin Game and you will see what I mean..  It ends with Harry saying
The italics are Jim's.

Uriel, I thought. You sneaky bastard.  But you weren't telling me anything I didn't already suspect.

Uriel is an archangel, so just because a mortal body in his guise remained at the Carpenter house, doesn't mean it was really him..  It could have been Michael in a different guise.. I know it is very tin hat, but read those pages, it just got me wondering..

It reads to me like maybe Uriel preloaded a Message for Michael to deliver, but to be honest, I'm not sure exactly what Harry meant there.

[Mira]

Uriel is an archangel, so just because a mortal body in his guise remained at the Carpenter house, doesn't mean it was really him..  It could have been Michael in a different guise.. I know it is very tin hat, but read those pages, it just got me wondering..


It reads to me like maybe Uriel preloaded a Message for Michael to deliver, but to be honest, I'm not sure exactly what Harry meant there.

Exactly, that is why I am thinking, "wait a minute, prerecorded message from Uriel?"  Or did Uriel pull  a real fast one, as in go himself to balance out Andruiel?   I guess it comes down to how one defines what an angel's "Grace"  really is.  It isn't exactly a mantle that can be transferred from one body to another..  Or more like Andruiel is trapped in the coin,  Uriel merely moved into Michael's body for the mission..

[g33k]

... I guess it comes down to how one defines what an angel's "Grace"  really is.  It isn't exactly a mantle that can be transferred from one body to another ...

Except:  evidently it is.
That's the prima facie reading of the text.

I suspect it's a bit more complicated than most mantles, but evidence says that "Divine Grace" in the Dresdenverse is in fact a special form of "mantle."
 

[Mira]

Except:  evidently it is.
That's the prima facie reading of the text.

I suspect it's a bit more complicated than most mantles, but evidence says that "Divine Grace" in the Dresdenverse is in fact a special form of "mantle."

   Most likely a lot more complicated,   we know mantles influence the holder a lot unless the holder has a very strong will.  At least that is what we've seen as far as the Fae mantles go including the ones the Knights hold.  Now maybe because as a Holy Knight Michael would be simpatico with the Grace of an archangel, but he didn't seem troubled by it's presence.  Different from ordinary mantles, the Grace was able to come out and speak as Uriel, though all of it came out of Michael's mouth it was apart from him.  It was enough to make Harry call Uriel, "a sneaky bastard.."  Which says there is a lot more to this than we thought..  Supposedly Uriel was lending Michael the controls to the jet, but was he really? 

[morriswalters]

This, in fact, is answered in the conclusion isn't it? When Nicodemus's followers are stripped from him.  And just because Uriel loaned Michael his grace doesn't mean he can't speak through him.  You've now seen what happens when you strip the Arch from the Archangel.

[didymos]

This, in fact, is answered in the conclusion isn't it? When Nicodemus's followers are stripped from him.  And just because Uriel loaned Michael his grace doesn't mean he can't speak through him.  You've now seen what happens when you strip the Arch from the Archangel.

More like what happens when you strip the Archangel from Archangel:

“So he couldn’t change you,” I said. “And he couldn’t change the world around you, at least not of his own will. But he could change himself. So he gave you his power in order to make your body function the way it used to. That way it isn’t his will that’s using the power. It’s yours.” The throbbing had begun to recede, slowly, and I looked up. “It’s way more than you needed, but it’s the only unit he had to work with. It’s as if . . . he loaned you his giant passenger jet because you needed a reading light.” I eyed the angel. “Right?”
Uriel nodded and said, “Close enough.”

Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (pp. 252-253). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

He loaned him his entire power.  No cool angel tricks at all. He's mortal:

“What happens to you, while I . . . borrow your jet?” Michael asked.
“Transubstantiation,” Uriel said. He gestured with his bloodied fingers.
Butters finally chimed in. “Holy. Crap. He’s mortal?”
“And he can die,” I said quietly.

Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 253). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[prince lotore]

there is a giant (and updated)statue of the winter ladies in Hades. if that is not enough of a link to hell for you i don't know what is. Also there was on statue for summer

[Arjan]

there is a giant (and updated)statue of the winter ladies in Hades. if that is not enough of a link to hell for you i don't know what is. Also there was on statue for summer

Except that Hades is not hell. The link between the courts and the old gods is well known.

[Mira]

Except that Hades is not hell. The link between the courts and the old gods is well known.

  Right, Hades is the god,  parts of his kingdom is hell by our standards, those that need punishment suffer it eternally.

[Con]

I mean one of the most confusing Fae plots there is in the books- which is saying something- is Mab and Titania opposing each other while the Denarians are running around in Small Favour. The Book also has direct Archangel power confirmation that Lucifer himself was acting in alliance with the Denarians. So there is atleast one significant occaision Mab and Lucifer. Fae and Hell. Working together.

[morriswalters]

More like what happens when you strip the Archangel from Archangel:

He loaned him his entire power.  No cool angel tricks at all. He's mortal:
 

Archangel from archangel is zero, not human.  I don't dispute your conclusion, but it is one of several points where Jim goes off the rails to put a light saber in Butter's hands.

I mean one of the most confusing Fae plots there is in the books- which is saying something- is Mab and Titania opposing each other while the Denarians are running around in Small Favour. The Book also has direct Archangel power confirmation that Lucifer himself was acting in alliance with the Denarians. So there is atleast one significant occaision Mab and Lucifer. Fae and Hell. Working together.

Uriel probably has a guest room at Arctis Tor.  You rarely see Mab without tripping over Uriel.  He starts the plot rolling in PG by moving  Michael.