When Michael Met Harry

[spiritofair]

Listening to Grave Peril again, Harry says that he met Michael 5 years earlier. That's 3.5 years before Storm Front, roughly. But Michael makes no appearance in it or Fool Moon.

Curious if Jim's ever expanded on how Harry met Michael and what Michael was doing to not be in the first 2 books. Grave Peril starts with Michael and Harry being pretty close. So did that closeness happen between Fool Moon and Gravel Peril? What happened to get them working together so closely between Fool Moon and Grave Peril?

Any ideas?

[Bad Alias]

Booktalk Nation Interview 5-15-14
How did Michael know about Elaine in Grave Peril?
At that point Michael and Harry had had enough bonding time for Harry to share some things with Michael that he hadn’t shared with anybody else.  He’d actually known Michael for about a year by the time Grave Peril got started.
How did Harry and Michael Carpenter originally meet?
It was on a case that Harry was working that he crossed trails with Michael.  I don’t want to say much more than that in case I want to go back and write it at some point, but it’s in my notes back there somewhere.  They wound up fighting the same bad guy.

The second part of the first answer is an example of Jim saying something directly contradicting something said in the stories. When Harry and Michael go see Fr. Forthill, Harry has gone to see him for help with some ghouls. Michael is surprised by this. In later books, Harry doesn't want to get help from Michael if it's brought up or it doesn't even cross his mind. Harry doesn't ask Michael for help unless Denarians or Michael's family is already involved. If we go by the WoJ instead of Grave Peril, then they may have met just after Fool Moon.

[Mira]

The second part of the first answer is an example of Jim saying something directly contradicting something said in the stories. When Harry and Michael go see Fr. Forthill, Harry has gone to see him for help with some ghouls. Michael is surprised by this. In later books, Harry doesn't want to get help from Michael if it's brought up or it doesn't even cross his mind. Harry doesn't ask Michael for help unless Denarians or Michael's family is already involved. If we go by the WoJ instead of Grave Peril, then they may have met just after Fool Moon.

My guess is it would be before Fool Moon,  because by Grave Peril Harry is like one of the family even if Charity isn't overly fond of his influence.  Then again it could be one of those friendships that the instant you meet it is like you've known each other for a hundred years.  What I am wondering is
whether or not they soul gazed?  I doubt it was deliberate, but in the earlier books Harry wasn't always as guarded as he should have been, and it would occur when he met a new person.  If they did, that would account for a lot as far as the faith and trust they have in one another, which seems to go beyond friendship at times.

[Regenbogen]

I can't remember, where I've read that, but I think it was in one of the books or short stories: Harry and Michael soulgazed at their first meeting. They met first before Storm Front (though I'm not sure that's canon), and I suppose, it was just "meeting" as in saying Hello, exchanging names, introducing each other's professions, soulgazing and slaying something nasty together.
The friendship must have come in the weeks before Grave Peril. It is mentioned somewhere in one of the first chapters, that they have been hunting ghostly appearances for weeks together.

[Mira]

I can't remember, where I've read that, but I think it was in one of the books or short stories: Harry and Michael soulgazed at their first meeting. They met first before Storm Front (though I'm not sure that's canon), and I suppose, it was just "meeting" as in saying Hello, exchanging names, introducing each other's professions, soulgazing and slaying something nasty together.
The friendship must have come in the weeks before Grave Peril. It is mentioned somewhere in one of the first chapters, that they have been hunting ghostly appearances for weeks together.

  I think it just makes sense that they soul gazed, Michael believes things about Harry that he himself doesn't always.   That is the impression I got from Skin Game when Harry went to his house to talk when he was all tied in knots about himself.   Michael affirmation is something I believe comes from someone who has looked deeply into who Harry is.

[spiritofair]

The friendship must have come in the weeks before Grave Peril. It is mentioned somewhere in one of the first chapters, that they have been hunting ghostly appearances for weeks together.

The reason I originally asked the question is because, in Grave Peril (at least the audiobook), it says they had met 5 years earlier. 5 years seems like an awfully long time. (I wonder if it was a typo and was meant to read 5 months...) What was Harry even doing 3.5 years pre-Storm Front (I think Grave Peril is about 1.5 years after Storm Front)? According to the timeline, Harry was 26 during Storm Front, would have turned 27 around Fool Moon and then 28 around Grave Peril, so, according to Grave Peril he was 22 or 23 when he met Michael.

According to the timeline:

6 BSF: After leaving Ebenezar at age 19, Harry roamed around for a while (between nine and twenty months) before winding up in Chicago.

5 BSF: At age 20, Harry arrives in Chicago. Before he goes to work at Ragged Angel, he takes a number of jobs, one of which was as a dance partner with a senior-citizen organization.

4-5 BSF: At age 20-21, Harry starts working with Nicholas Christian (“Nick”) at Ragged Angel. He spends three years there.

4 BSF: Susan becomes a reporter at the Arcane [5 years before Grave Peril, DM 198]
— The last time Charity sees Harry before the events of Grave Peril. Michael is injured, and Charity thoroughly chews Harry out.

3 BSF: Harry finds Mister the Tailless Kitten in a trash can. [SF 88] (Thanks, Amber!)

2-3 BSF: A Restoration of Faith. Harry meets Murphy. He has 6 months left of working at Ragged Angel. Faith Astor is 10. At this time, the Vargassi family and the Jamaicans rule the Chicago mob scene.

2 BSF: At age ~23-24, Harry opens his detective business. Ortega indicates that this takes place 5 years before the events of Death Masks, which takes place in 3 ASF. [DM 13]

2 BSF: Shortly after that, Harry meets Susan (it’s described as a “couple years” before the events of Grave Peril). From SF: “She had been tracking me ever since interviewing me for a feature story, right after I’d opened up my business.”

So, yeah, according to all of this, Harry met Michael several years before Storm Front and then Michael just wasn't in the loop in Storm Front or Fool Moon. Could easily be explained by Harry being a little scared of Charity's wrath. I'm still interested in how he and Michael met, since it was pre-Restoration of Faith, and Harry must have been really inexperienced at the time. Too inexperienced to handle the kind of thing Michael typically fights.

[Bad Alias]

I can't remember, where I've read that, but I think it was in one of the books or short stories: Harry and Michael soulgazed at their first meeting.

I recall that as well. I recall something about how Michael wouldn't work with him otherwise. If anyone can recall wherever we read this, that could be helpful to answering spiritofair's question.

"It's been, what, three or four years since we've talked?"
"Five years, Mr. Dresden," the woman said, shooting me a glare. "And the Good lord willing it will be five more before I have to put up with your idiocy again."

Grave Peril, Ch. 7, conversation between Charity and Harry at the jail.

Forthill: I trust you have no complaints about the blessed water?
Harry: None at all. Talk about your surprised ghoul.
Michael: Harry. You've been keeping secrets again.
Harry: Contrary to what Charity thinks, Michael, I don't go running to the phone to call you every time I have a little problem.

Grave Peril, Ch. 9

So Jim says about a year before Grave Peril. Harry says three or four years since he met Charity. Charity says five years. Jim says Harry met Michael on a case and they fought the same bad guy.

For what it's worth, I think they were close immediately. They clearly have a history by Grave Peril.

[g33k]

... and Harry must have been really inexperienced at the time. Too inexperienced to handle the kind of thing Michael typically fights.

As Harry is always quick to point out, it isn't always about having the Big Stick to whack his foes with; it's about the prep-work and the thinking.

Maybe he was not as experienced or skilled as we saw him later, but he was still a (full, if Doom'ed) Wizard of the White Council, and -- with the right prep -- able to pull some very-impressive stunts.

Michael once pointed out to Harry, "What goes around, comes around.  And sometimes, you are what comes around."  I think the Almighty (and Uriel) consider Harry to be one of those assets in Michael's toolbox; a member of Team Carpenter.  Or teammates on Team TWG.  And this event was where they introduced the new teammates.