new mirror mirror idea

[Bad Alias]

The difference between DF: Mirror Mirror and ST TOS: Mirror Mirror is that Kirk didn't encounter a world that was radically different because of his actions. And IaWL isn't about a choice of George's making everything different, but all his choices.

I think a major difference is that Mr. Potter will get his in the DF version much like the SNL "lost ending" version introduced by William Shatner. https://youtu.be/vw89o0afb2A?t=95.

[Mira]

The difference between DF: Mirror Mirror and ST TOS: Mirror Mirror is that Kirk didn't encounter a world that was radically different because of his actions. And IaWL isn't about a choice of George's making everything different, but all his choices.

I think a major difference is that Mr. Potter will get his in the DF version much like the SNL "lost ending" version introduced by William Shatner. https://youtu.be/vw89o0afb2A?t=95.

Yeah, the premise that Jim describes about  Harry's choice seems more IaWL than Mirror Mirror, but not quite IaWL either, because that really isn't about Jimmy Steward's choice either, he tries to commit suicide an angel named Clarence stops him.  The Jimmy Steward character says the world
would be better if he had never been born.. Clarence grants his wish and he finds out what a positive impact he had on the world after all.  Star Trek Mirror Mirror isn't about choices either, a transporter
accident throws Kirk and company into a parallel word the opposite of their own.  The figure it out and in the end as they leave to go back Kirk suggests a choice for that world's Spock to murder that Kirk and things better. 

[morriswalters]

About the only thing Mirror, Mirror the Dresden title has in common with the Star Trek title is the idea of parallel dimensions, the TOS version was silly at the time and is still silly today. The City On The Edge Of Forever did the idea better.  Much better.  It is probably the best episode of TOS, period.  And it deals precisely with the central point of Jim's deceit. How would the difference of one act by the protagonist change the world.  Jim's Trek lore has been shown to be deficient.  Hell the title even invokes Chicago in the Dresdenverse.

[Mira]

About the only thing Mirror, Mirror the Dresden title has in common with the Star Trek title is the idea of parallel dimensions, the TOS version was silly at the time and is still silly today. The City On The Edge Of Forever did the idea better.  Much better.  It is probably the best episode of TOS, period.  And it deals precisely with the central point of Jim's deceit. How would the difference of one act by the protagonist change the world.  Jim's Trek lore has been shown to be deficient.  Hell the title even invokes Chicago in the Dresdenverse.

   Yes, it deals with the difference one act make, but not by deceit.   Doctor McCoy accidentally injects himself with a drug that makes him trip severely, he transports down to a world they are
orbiting and goes through a time gate, everything in the present is changed and not for the better.
Kirk and Spock go back to the time to try and fix it.  Turns out McCoy saves a women who's actions
seem good at the time changes everything not for the good.  She was supposed to die in a car accident, of course Kirk falls in love with her, but has to stop and does, McCoy from saving her life and everything is put back the way it was. 

[morriswalters]

My Trek lore is up to snuff.  I grew up in a SF deficient world and watched Trek every Sunday at 11 AM for years.  However the central deceitconceit is how the event of either saving or letting one character die, completely changes the world, and in the case in point means that Star Fleet and the Federation never comes to pass.  Kirk's question is, do I save Edith Keeler and destroy the future, or let her die and put things back as they occurred.  It fits very closely the choice Harry makes in the passage I cited.

[toodeep]

Considering the timeline, I think the options are probably:

1.   Whether he starts a war with the red court over Susan, or
2.   Whether he runs away with Susan to South America

Personally, I think that 2 makes the most sense because he really does consider it, it is a decision we can really see Harry choosing.  The problem is, it makes for a terrible story.  He’s gone from Chicago and isn’t there to stop the Fairy court war, to stop Nicodemus from kicking off a huge plague, or to stop Cowl from becoming a God.  Those things ravage the world and make it a hellscape and Harry learns he should never have left Chicago?  That seems like a poor lesson.

So I think it is choice number 1, he refuses to save Susan because a war would be too deadly.  Because of that he loses his moral center and increases in self loathing which allows him to become a bad guy.  He probably accepts an offer from Marcone, but eventually turns on him, then accepts a denarian coin, but discovers they don’t play so nice with each other either.  Maybe accepts the winter night mantle somewhere in there as well, but isn’t as good at managing it as our Harry.  War kicks off where Red Court goes after the council allied with outsiders and the Fomor, who go after the fairie courts.  Massive war going on with no good allies and he has taken to summoning other version of himself when danger looms so that they can be killed and he can escape with people thinking he is dead.  At the end of the book Harry has to face off against himself and “save him” to be able to get home.  Possibly by either making him the winter knight or bringing him into line as winter knight so he can get Mab’s help in getting home.

I don’t see it being a choice about the sword, because that happened earlier than “the end” of the book.

This could all be wrong, it would be a very different book if the Harrys trade places like the Kirks do in Star Trek, but it wasn’t my impression that was how it was going to be written.

[Mira]

My Trek lore is up to snuff.  I grew up in a SF deficient world and watched Trek every Sunday at 11 AM for years.  However the central deceit is how the event of either saving or letting one character die, completely changes the world, and in the case in point means that Star Fleet and the Federation never comes to pass.  Kirk's question is, do I save Edith Keeler and destroy the future, or let her die and put things back as they occurred.  It fits very closely the choice Harry makes in the passage I cited.

Yes, but it is McCoy's choices that had destroyed the future..  If you can consider it a choice, he felt he had no choice, he is a doctor and he was there to push her out of the way of the on coming car.  Yes, that was Kirk's dilemma, do the selfish thing for his own short term happiness?  Or think of the future of mankind?  He had to chose to restore the future he lived.  It is different from supposedly Harry's choice because it is a choice he made that has made the present what it is.  He supposedly wants to go back and chose differently.. On that level a bit more like IaWL when Jimmy Steward proclaims that everything would be better had he never been born.   

So from what little information we have, we know Harry made several choices after the party, which led to several things of consequences in the following books to the present.  The biggie now is the rise of the Fomor after the Red Court was wiped out..  I can see things going very badly at the peace talks and as per usual Harry suffering immense guilt and going down the slippery slope of "if only I had.."   So in a combo of Mirror Mirror and IaWL,  someone is going to wise him up to, "yeah, and if you had, this is the resulting world and it's a hell of  a lot worse..."  Or not, and Harry does change what he did.. 

[Bad Alias]

@Morris: I think you mean conceit, not deceit. Also, Mirror, Mirror fits Jim's naming convention. He's also mentioned he's going full tilt at it with "evil" goatees and the whole nine yards. But I think Jim's story will be more of a mix of the two TOS episodes and IaWL than predominantly any one of them.

@toodeep: If I recall correctly, the option of running off with Susan isn't addressed until Death Masks.

[Mira]

@Morris: I think you mean conceit, not deceit. Also, Mirror, Mirror fits Jim's naming convention. He's also mentioned he's going full tilt at it with "evil" goatees and the whole nine yards. But I think Jim's story will be more of a mix of the two TOS episodes and IaWL than predominantly any one of them.

@toodeep: If I recall correctly, the option of running off with Susan isn't addressed until Death Masks.

Not trusting Thomas is one option because just at the end of the party when things go to hell, I seem to remember Thomas pushing Susan towards the vamps to save Harry.

As I said, the Mirror Mirror plot line has nothing to do with our Kirk and crew's choices, it was just a  transporter accident.  Then again, Jim cannot totally borrow the plot.

[Bad Alias]

I think not trusting Thomas comes too early, but it's possible. I tend to think the choice revolves around Susan.

[morriswalters]

@Morris: I think you mean conceit , not deceit.

[Bad Alias]

I wouldn't have said anything, but it appeared to be creating confusion.

[morriswalters]

No problem.  Thanks.

[Mira]

I think not trusting Thomas comes too early, but it's possible. I tend to think the choice revolves around Susan.

  It does revolve around Susan, I'd have to go back and read the exact quote.  Off of the top of my head, in the confusion of the fight, Thomas looks directly at Harry, and chooses to trade Susan and two other women to the vamps for Justine.  That almost ended Harry's relationship with Thomas before it began.   Harry might think if he had handled that differently Thomas wouldn't have had to
choose and perhaps he could have gotten Susan away safely.

[Bad Alias]

  It does revolve around Susan, I'd have to go back and read the exact quote.  Off of the top of my head, in the confusion of the fight, Thomas looks directly at Harry, and chooses to trade Susan and two other women to the vamps for Justine.  That almost ended Harry's relationship with Thomas before it began.   Harry might think if he had handled that differently Thomas wouldn't have had to
choose and perhaps he could have gotten Susan away safely.

Harry chooses to trust Thomas in Ch. 31. There are 39 chapters. I think that's to far from the end. There's almost a full quarter of the book left.

And let me clarify what I was trying to say; I was a little vague. I meant a choice directly involving Susan. A choice to let Bianca have her, a choice to not tell her he loves her, etc. I'd say the choice to not trust Thomas is indirectly about Susan. It's a choice about Thomas based on what he did to Susan.