Peace talks excerpt indications

[Mira]

In Cold Days, Harry launched a Soulfire/Winter strike on HWWBh, who blocked almost the whole thing; and the one strike drained a LOT of Harry's power.

Yeah, but in Cold Days Harry was still working out how Soulfire and the Winter Mantle work... He still was kind of intimidated by both and afraid of becoming a monster.   By the end though some of it had gotten through,  from what Kringle told him, Harry is a lot more powerful than he knows.  All I am saying Harry's got weapons, he just doesn't quite have the skill set or confidence to deploy them, so while at that point he may drain his resources fighting HWWB, but by the BAT I bet that won't happen, and he won't need Hell Fire to do it either.  Let's not forget the stash of weapons he got from the vault in Skin Game, Hades said only those clever enough to take them would be able to used them if I remember correctly.

[Bad Alias]

What I think we will see is Harry will learn how to "take off" the Mantle at will; it's still there, still his; but he won't be the Mantle's, and he will have other things too.  Vadderung, after all, isn't ALWAYS Kringle (and very well may have another Mantle -- or several -- he sometimes wears, as well).

My bet is either Harry gets out of it or this. I'm leaning towards this. I think that was the whole point of the scene. I know Jim has said that Harry's deal to become the Winter Knight overrode his "three favors" deal, but that's not what happened in the books. I don't know if Jim is lying to throw us off or misremembering because it's not important to him since he doesn't plan on Harry getting out of the Mantle that way.

I agree about Rashid, however he does have his own agenda, remember in Summer Knight he was more like doing his own testing than protecting Harry from the Council.  He told Harry he would have killed him, himself if Harry had slipped up.  I think you are thinking of Proven Guilty,  I don't believe Eb was at the trial itself for Molly, he came in later at the same time as Michael, however it was Rashid that delayed things that kept Molly alive and supported Harry.

I meant Summer Knight in the sentence I said Summer Knight, and I meant Proven Guilty in the next sentence. Rashid does indeed have his own agenda, but he has constantly acted in ways that help Harry.

It just takes some knowledge, I think.  Most of Lash "went away" in the Raith Deeps, but everything that was "Lash" existed inside Harry's mind... was a part of Harry; Harry was (and presumably still IS, if he knows how) capable of it.

While I don't agree, I do think this is highly plausible.

[noblehunter]

Yeah, but in Cold Days Harry was still working out how Soulfire and the Winter Mantle work... He still was kind of intimidated by both and afraid of becoming a monster.   By the end though some of it had gotten through,  from what Kringle told him, Harry is a lot more powerful than he knows.  All I am saying Harry's got weapons, he just doesn't quite have the skill set or confidence to deploy them, so while at that point he may drain his resources fighting HWWB, but by the BAT I bet that won't happen, and he won't need Hell Fire to do it either.  Let's not forget the stash of weapons he got from the vault in Skin Game, Hades said only those clever enough to take them would be able to used them if I remember correctly.

I think this is well supported by the books being very consistent that how you use power greatly effects the efficiency of it. Wizards who are more powerful than Harry almost always show it by using less power to get a stronger effect. Where Harry would use the magical equivalent of a sledgehammer, Luccio or Morgan use a stiletto because they're simply better at using magic than Harry.

A good chunk of Harry's leveling up has been because he had to revisit the basics to teach Molly and to find ways to do things with a much smaller power budget. He's probably got all the raw power he needs for the BAT, he just needs to learn how to use it for maximum advantage.

[morriswalters]

I meant Summer Knight in the sentence I said Summer Knight, and I meant Proven Guilty in the next sentence. Rashid does indeed have his own agenda, but he has constantly acted in ways that help Harry.

It may be more useful for your theorizing if you consider what the Gatekeeper and others are doing is moving Harry to a specific place and time.  And that if he moves in the wrong direction they are prepared to kill him. Also in terms of Mentors, one not mentioned in the text of PG but who is there anyway. Uriel.  First then in PG, then Small Favor, again in Changes, Ghost Story and finally in SG.

[Mira]

It may be more useful for your theorizing if you consider what the Gatekeeper and others are doing is moving Harry to a specific place and time.  And that if he moves in the wrong direction they are prepared to kill him. Also in terms of Mentors, one not mentioned in the text of PG but who is there anyway. Uriel.  First then in PG, then Small Favor, again in Changes, Ghost Story and finally in SG.

Yup, the Gatekeeper said as much in Summer Knight, he had his own little test for Harry that had nothing to do with the politics of the Senior Council, and in Turn Coat I believe he would have burned him down when he scanned him on the dock if he thought something was amiss.. Also in Proven Guilty when he helped to delay the Merlin from proxy voting for almost the whole Senior Council, I believe as well as saving both Molly and Harry he was also pushing them both towards the Winter Court.

[AClone]

I'm hoping that Harry and Ebenezer commenting that a Senior Council member getting torn apart would make it look like the Fomor are trying to sabotage the peace talks means that Eb won't get torn apart by Outsiders...

I'm also hoping that by now Harry has told Eb that he has two grandsons.

Something I think has been overlooked:

(click to show/hide)

Why hasn't this psychic assault thingy happened when Outsiders have entered our world previously in the series? Eb acts like it's a usual thing, but it's not. Is it just something the Cornerhound did deliberately?

I kinda curious when Harry has been in the immediate vicinity at other times that Outsiders have been summoned into the world--like, across the street. I don't recall any. From what I recall, the ones he's seen were previously summoned off page.

My bet is either Harry gets out of it or this. I'm leaning towards this. I think that was the whole point of the scene. I know Jim has said that Harry's deal to become the Winter Knight overrode his "three favors" deal, but that's not what happened in the books. I don't know if Jim is lying to throw us off or misremembering because it's not important to him since he doesn't plan on Harry getting out of the Mantle that way.

In the books Mab tells Harry that if he accepts the job of Winter Knight, that she'll forgive out the remaining favors that he owes. So I'm not sure what you think Jim is lying about or misremembering. I think there were two left when she says that, but when Harry finally took the mantle, there was still one remaining. He has tasks to do for her now, not owed "favors".

[Yuillegan]

Something I think has been overlooked:

(click to show/hide)

Why hasn't this psychic assault thingy happened when Outsiders have entered our world previously in the series? Eb acts like it's a usual thing, but it's not. Is it just something the Cornerhound did deliberately?

AClone is right on this...I don't believe Harry has been around when Outsiders have been summoned, with the notable exception of HWWBh in the Raith Deeps. He wasn't around for the first summoning by Justin, nor for HWWBf's summoning, nor the one's summoned during the war with the Red Court, nor the summoning of the Mistfiend (although debateable if that is an Outsider).

However quite often Outsiders are accompanied by a massive mental whammy, the one that possess' Vittorio had a huge mental attack, as did Before. Curiously, it also accompanied the Evil Eye (Malacchio) - but in a different form. Harry only noticed when the energy passed through him. He also believed it either marked and/or changed him (but that's another thread).

I notice that Harry talk about nightmares in this passage. The Night of Bad Dreams followed the destruction of the Red Court via a powerful act of black magic. It also has occurred at other times of darkness in the series. Make of that what you will.

[Avernite]

I notice that Harry talk about nightmares in this passage. The Night of Bad Dreams followed the destruction of the Red Court via a powerful act of black magic. It also has occurred at other times of darkness in the series. Make of that what you will.

I think that's an unwarranted expansion of the term black magic; sure it was death-fuelled, but no actual humans were murdered by magic there (they were murdered for magic).

So I believe it didn't technically violate any of the Laws.

[Mira]

I think that's an unwarranted expansion of the term black magic; sure it was death-fuelled, but no actual humans were murdered by magic there (they were murdered for magic).

So I believe it didn't technically violate any of the Laws.

  I agree,  it was the vamps that Harry killed,  it also killed the vamp part of the half turned, those who were young enough reverted back to being full human, alive and well.  Those who were old, essentially died of old age.  So no humans were murdered..

[123Chikadee]

Maybe Eb looses the Blackstaff in PT, weakening him but not killing him. That way he can die later in the BAT. Harry could pick up the Blackstaff in the heat of the moment and drive the baddies back. Though once the dust settles the Council will want the staff to give it someone who isn't Harry, and depending on his experiences with the staff, he might let them have it.
I think the non-overlap of skillsets for the WC is gonna be a big plot point.
I'm not sure if Harry will have the Winter Mantle and the Blackstaff, I know I don't have anything other than a feeling about it, but I think the staff could go to someone else. Maybe Carlos.
If not Eb, who else on the WC could die in his place?

[Dina]

In the books Mab tells Harry that if he accepts the job of Winter Knight, that she'll forgive out the remaining favors that he owes. So I'm not sure what you think Jim is lying about or misremembering. I think there were two left when she says that, but when Harry finally took the mantle, there was still one remaining. He has tasks to do for her now, not owed "favors".

I think is just the opposite. If Harry does Mab a favor, he would be able to stop being the WK while still being healthy (I mean, without a broken back). Of course, as the WK he basically has to follow her orders so...how you define a favor? It is complicated.  For a while here in our discussions I thought that Harry's option would be that Mab would ask Harry to kill her (probably because she is infected). Then will be the shocking revelation that Harry actually loves her. So, by the clause of "not ordering him to kill anyone he loves" Harry will be free (with her back healed).Then two things will happen: Harry won't kill her and find a way to cure her or he would kill her (in essence, doing her the third favor) and Molly will become Mab (which will prove Ms. Duck has been right all the time) 

[morriswalters]

Nemesis will reclaim Lea. I think Mab will then die at her hand.  And Harry will then kill Lea.   And the stars will rain from the sky. Thus, Empty Skies. 

Mark 13:25

And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

I'm sorry if this is a little incoherent.

[Yuillegan]

I think that's an unwarranted expansion of the term black magic; sure it was death-fuelled, but no actual humans were murdered by magic there (they were murdered for magic).

So I believe it didn't technically violate any of the Laws.

Violation of the Laws does not equal black magic. Jim has said the Laws were set up specifically to limit power.

The Laws of Magic don’t necessarily match up to the actual universal guidelines to how the universal power known as “magic” behaves.

The consequences for breaking the Laws of Magic don’t all come from people wearing grey cloaks.

And none of it necessarily has anything to do with what is Right or Wrong.

Which exist.  It’s finding where they start or stop existing that’s the hard part.
Jim

Dark magic has a qualitative difference. Dresden talks about this often, such as in Blood Rites when he feels the Malacchio. I don't have the ebook on hand so I can't do a direct quote but he says (paraphrasing) that he had always assumed that there wasn't really any truly evil magic, that it all came from the same place. But the Malacchio (Evil Eye - often associated with the Fomor fyi) that Lord Raith was using (powered by He Who Walks Behind supposedly) was of a different quality, something fundamentally wrong and evil.

Also, whilst the half-vamps are not mortal in the strictest sense, they are more mortal than Thomas. Food for thought, considering how many of them died to. And Harry murdered Susan on an Altar of Blood Sacrifice in front of her daughter, whilst also completing the ritual in doing so. And you're telling me it isn't black magic...

[didymos]

Dark magic has a qualitative difference. Dresden talks about this often, such as in Blood Rites when he feels the Malacchio. I don't have the ebook on hand so I can't do a direct quote but he says (paraphrasing) that he had always assumed that there wasn't really any truly evil magic, that it all came from the same place. But the Malacchio (Evil Eye - often associated with the Fomor fyi) that Lord Raith was using (powered by He Who Walks Behind supposedly) was of a different quality, something fundamentally wrong and evil.

There was also the barbed wire spell in Grave Peril, which was unlike Harry's magic.  He ought to have remembered that.

[Mira]

There was also the barbed wire spell in Grave Peril, which was unlike Harry's magic.  He ought to have remembered that.

   I believe it was in Dead Beat, but Harry talks about how black magic has a "greasy feel" to it
when one encounters it.