Christmas Eve story - Huge question

[Silentbrick]

So I reread Christmas Eve, about Mab and Molly giving Harry a gift out of Obligation to a vassal and I suddenly wondered, "If Mab and Molly are obligated to give Harry a gift, isn't Mother Winter also?   It doesn't make alot of sense that 2 out of 3 queens of winter are required to give him a gift, especially with the Faerie fascination with 3's.   It would seem reasonable that Mother Winter must also do so. 

Of course, one wonders if she did in a way.   I wonder, does Harry pick up the Blackstaff in Peace Talks?

I searched the forums but didn't see anything on this come up.   

[Mira]

So I reread Christmas Eve, about Mab and Molly giving Harry a gift out of Obligation to a vassal and I suddenly wondered, "If Mab and Molly are obligated to give Harry a gift, isn't Mother Winter also?   It doesn't make alot of sense that 2 out of 3 queens of winter are required to give him a gift, especially with the Faerie fascination with 3's.   It would seem reasonable that Mother Winter must also do so. 

Of course, one wonders if she did in a way.   I wonder, does Harry pick up the Blackstaff in Peace Talks?

I searched the forums but didn't see anything on this come up.

   A cup of her spit might be useful..    It burnt holes through whatever it landed on.  She might consider giving him one of her extra set of teeth, the steel ones maybe?

[g33k]

If I had to guess, I'd guess that the Mothers don't have "vassals" as such.

The Knights *have*to* obey their Queen; and have a different, but also "subject/vassal" relationship to their Lady (according to Bob, back when he was explaining things to Harry in Summer Knight).

I think the Knights owe... something... to the Mothers.  Damned if I can figure out exactly WHAT, though.

And as for giving a "gift"  *shivers*  I'm pretty sure that can't be anything good.  The Mothers seem to be anchor and bedrock; if they act, at all, it's because stuff has gotten seriously F'ed Up.
 
Also, I think the Mothers are older.  They predate the Kringle Mantle, so they're probably not subject to those rules.

That said...  You may be correct.  Maybe she already DID give him something.  The Blackstaff, for example, would be a pretty OhShit kind of "gift."

[Mira]

I think the Knights owe... something... to the Mothers.  Damned if I can figure out exactly WHAT, though.

  Other than fidelity, I don't think the Knights owe the Mothers anything more..   

[morriswalters]

I would note that Mab didn't give Harry a gift, she gave Maggie a gift. And Molly's gift was symbolic, rather than tangible.  Sarrisa's influence I suppose, still teaching Mab humanity. I suspect that Molly's gift fulfilled an obligation incurred by the Winter Court when things went pear shaped during the Peace Talks.  The Mother's don't visit this realm, or at least so we are told.

Edit
By the way they have prettied up the Christmas short story with illustrations and packaged it into a PDF file for download.

[Mira]

I would note that Mab didn't give Harry a gift, she gave Maggie a gift. And Molly's gift was symbolic, rather than tangible.  Sarrisa's influence I suppose, still teaching Mab humanity. I suspect that Molly's gift fulfilled an obligation incurred by the Winter Court when things went pear shaped during the Peace Talks.  The Mother's don't visit this realm, or at least so we are told.

Edit
By the way they have prettied up the Christmas short story with illustrations and packaged it into a PDF file for download.

  I don't think it is Sarrissa's influence over Mab as it is Mab playing the long game.  She knows her
Knight,  she knows she will get more from him with honey than tyrannical demands. 

[g33k]

... it is Mab playing the long game.  She knows her
Knight,  she knows she will get more from him with honey than tyrannical demands. 

I think it is Mab playing the longer game.  She knows it's likely that Little Maggie may develop substantial power.  She's giving the girl a taste, just like a first free hit from a dealer.

And showing how much WinterPower can be fun.

And of course... showing that Harry approves of her wielding WinterPower.

WinterKnight Harry, WinterLady Molly... and a special Gift of Winter from Mab.  Yeah, li'l Maggie is so screwed-over it ain't funny...

"Sucking up" to Harry with a "gift" for Maggie?  Yeah, that's just the cover-threat for the REAL sucker-punch.
 

[toodeep]

Ya, it makes me wonder.  Harry has gotten a lot of mileage out of having a fairie godmother.  I'm surprised he hasn't arranged for any godparent for Maggie.

Or is that something people only really do at birth, and thus he's on the scene to late to arrange that?  I was just thinking that Molly already was looking out for her some while he was "dead" and before she was winter lady, so it might be interesting if she had that role as winter lady.

[morriswalters]

I wouldn't overthink the Christmas story.  It's a cute take on the Night Before Christmas, made as a buzz starter.  It has some interesting points. Mainly allusions to Peace Talks.  I can't wait to see the nature of the body count which has made everyone so solicitous. 

[Silentbrick]

Man outright says "I have brought your gift."  And "I have an obligation to my vassals ."  So she IS gifting Harry.  It's only indirectly for Maggie. 

Molly also says her gift is part and parcel to the whole  winter lady gig.

Bob states that the knight has different duties to each queen.   But it just feels off for two out of three.

[g33k]

Ya, it makes me wonder.  Harry has gotten a lot of mileage out of having a fairie godmother.  I'm surprised he hasn't arranged for any godparent for Maggie...

<ahem>

I think you mean JIM has gotten a lot of mileage out of Harry having a fairy godmother!

For Harry, it was an ongoing source of low-grade fear spiked with occasions of raw terror... and a few moments he could leverage the unsurvivable into the barely-survivable.

I think he's hoping for better for Maggie.

The Carpenter household (and Mouse!) is better for her than anything Faerie has to offer.

[nadia.skylark]

I think it is Mab playing the longer game.  She knows it's likely that Little Maggie may develop substantial power.  She's giving the girl a taste, just like a first free hit from a dealer.

And showing how much WinterPower can be fun.

And of course... showing that Harry approves of her wielding WinterPower.

WinterKnight Harry, WinterLady Molly... and a special Gift of Winter from Mab.  Yeah, li'l Maggie is so screwed-over it ain't funny...

"Sucking up" to Harry with a "gift" for Maggie?  Yeah, that's just the cover-threat for the REAL sucker-punch.

This. Given that Harry knows what faeries are like, I'm surprised he didn't tell Mab to f*** off and that there was no way he was going to help her manipulate his daughter. It seems like a real oversight on his part.

[MoroccoMole]

I think this is a good catch.  I think the mothers are even more tightly bound by the rules than the other queens.  The more power one has, the more limitations there are.  See Angels & free will.  In Cold days Harry hurt Mother Winter when he summoned her and she balanced the scales immediately by almost killing him.  Given that, I think that Mother winter would definitely owe Harry a gift and I agree with those who shudder at what it could be.    This would be a great question for Jim at his next live appearance.

[Arjan]

This. Given that Harry knows what faeries are like, I'm surprised he didn't tell Mab to f*** off and that there was no way he was going to help her manipulate his daughter. It seems like a real oversight on his part.

The main problem Harry had with his godmother is that he as a child had no clue how to safely use that asset. I am sure it can be hugely beneficial especially as someone else already had paid the price.

[nadia.skylark]

The main problem Harry had with his godmother is that he as a child had no clue how to safely use that asset. I am sure it can be hugely beneficial especially as someone else already had paid the price.

I'm pretty sure the problem is that there's no real way to safely use a powerful sidhe who's been successfully manipulating people for longer than Harry, his mom, and his grandfather combined have been alive.