Author Topic: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN  (Read 5275 times)

Offline BrainFireBob

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WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« on: April 03, 2020, 11:14:25 PM »
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Offline Yuillegan

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2020, 02:48:19 AM »
That's an interesting WAG. It ties together neatly. However, unless that happens almost at the end of Battlegrounds...I am not sure it works. Because Battle Grounds (as far as I can tell) isn't the time travel book. Mirror Mirror (fan title), the following book to Battle Grounds (that was meant to follow Peace Talks before Jim added Battle Grounds in), is meant to be the time travel book.

But who knows? The Cornerhounds must be summoned, and traditionally time travel is what draws their attention. So some sort of time travel is happening in the background at the very least, I would assume.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 06:29:14 AM by Yuillegan »
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Offline 123Chikadee

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2020, 03:15:05 AM »
Hm, yeah I'm not sure who else could 'summon' the Cornerhounds. Unless, maybe the cornerhounds get brought in at the end of PT for a cliffhanger and Eb dies at the beginning of BG.
I know that Butcher said Harry will break the Time Travel law but maybe it really is just a small moment rather than the focus of a whole book. Though now I wanna know if Mirror Mirror is gonna be after Battle Ground or if it'll be the supposed wrestling book.

Offline g33k

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2020, 06:00:13 AM »
Hm, yeah I'm not sure who else could 'summon' the Cornerhounds ...

Rashid.

We know time is a specialty of his.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2020, 06:34:33 AM »
123 - Butcher confirmed that all the other books are still going to happen. So Mirror Mirror (time travel), Fight Night (god wrestling), etc are all still on track. He has basically just inserted an extra book into the series before all those novels.

And presumably the people who keep summoning Outsiders, whether Black Council or whatever, could summon Cornerhounds like any other Outsider they might summon. Cornerhounds don't seem to be apocalyptic, merely deadly.

Rashid doesn't actually use much time magic, as far as I can tell. He can see possible futures and is naturally cryptic in order to not upset the outcome he wants. Warden Chandler also does a version of this I believe, although it seems to be both different in nature and purpose.
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Offline Avernite

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2020, 07:46:45 AM »
Mirror Mirror was dimension travel, not time travel, from what I recall?

Offline 123Chikadee

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2020, 08:10:37 AM »
Since the WC is very techy about time magic, and for good reason, I'm wondering what would attract the cornerhounds as in, what is considered 'time-y' enough to get their attention. Is it enough to take a peak into the future, or do they need a full on paradox? Either way, they still need to be let in as opposed to just being able to bust in.

Offline didymos

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2020, 08:40:45 AM »
Since the WC is very techy about time magic, and for good reason, I'm wondering what would attract the cornerhounds as in, what is considered 'time-y' enough to get their attention. Is it enough to take a peak into the future, or do they need a full on paradox? Either way, they still need to be let in as opposed to just being able to bust in.

Your'e assuming they're just like the Hounds of Tindalos, rather than just inspired by them.  That's not a justified assumption. They may be summoned just like any other Outsider.

Offline 123Chikadee

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2020, 11:47:37 AM »
Well, I don't think we'll know either way just how closely inspired they are or not, at least not yet.
I'm wondering just how the WC defines the gray areas of the time travel laws. Maybe you have to have some sort of knowledge of time in order to help w/ the summoning of cornerhounds?

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2020, 01:05:21 PM »
Didymos, you are correct. Although I would say that speculation is all we have anyway for that stuff, so it isn't entirely unreasonable to theorize what might attract the attention of a Cornerhound. But in general I agree, they get summoned like any other Outsider. As Harry tells us in that very scene, the purpose the Hounds have for being on Earth is a mortal one, as it takes a mortal to bring them here.

Curiously, they originally were meant to have a "special attack" (as Jim puts it) that destroyed or disrupted a victim's short term memory. But Jim couldn't make that work (he says) so he implies they won't do that anymore exactly. I took that initial ability to be evidence that they are similar to the Hounds of Tindalos, as a being that hunts or feeds off time travelers (or has to do with time) might disrupt a persons connection to the multiverse and indeed it's own time. But that's just my thinking on the mechanics and reasons why it might have initially had that ability.

123 - Assuming the Cornerhounds are like the Hounds of Tindalos, I would imagine it takes a significant act of time distortion/disruption. Otherwise every Wizard who lived long enough to get his/her Sight (as in the prophetic ability Wizards get as they age, which Harry learns about in Small Favor I think) would have Cornerhounds coming after them. I suspect it takes one to travel through time to even gain their notice.

Avernite - Technically it is both. Mirror Mirror is set in a parallel universe, that was the same as Dresden's but for a choice made towards the end of Grave Peril (which is hotly debated on this forum what that choice was, and when). Everything after that choice flows from the choice that the alternate timeline Harry made. So while I believe Harry visits a parallel universe, he also may engage in some time travel. It is also possible there is a WOJ that mentioned Harry will do some time travel in that book. But I can't remember where it is right now, if it exists.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2020, 04:51:47 PM »
Hm, yeah I'm not sure who else could 'summon' the Cornerhounds.
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2020, 10:56:14 PM »
Mirror Mirror was dimension travel, not time travel, from what I recall?
Correct. As Jim outlined it, it has nothing to do with time travel, but with how free will affects reality.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2020, 09:15:29 PM »
Cowl. It is about time he turns up.

I agree, and I hope so.

Correct. As Jim outlined it, it has nothing to do with time travel, but with how free will affects reality.
Correct. As Jim outlined it, it has nothing to do with time travel, but with how free will affects reality.

What you are describing is the same thing technically, from purely physics lens. But I am not going to be pedantic, I assume that it won't necessarily involve Harry actually going all the way back to the Choice that created that Universe. But don't be surprised if more traditional time travel rears its head sooner than expected.
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Offline knnn

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2020, 01:18:17 PM »
If you look carefully at the shirts Harry is wearing throughout the trailer, you'll notice he wears a t-shirt for the first scene and the scene with Ebenezer, but puts on a button-down shirt (during the scene with Marcone) and (presumably) wears it throughout the Talks themselves (e.g. including the scene with Lara).

This matches the first part of OP, since the Cornerhounds chapter (chapter 9 per Priscellie) happens the night before the Talks start.   My personal theory is that the Harry/Ebenezer confrontation happens right before the Cornerhounds appear (Harry stating that someone is trying to sabotage the talks), and their appearance defuses the near-confrontation they have "onscreen" and convinces Ebenezer that Harry might be right.
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Offline AClone

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Re: WAG- Trailer, Sample Chapter, SPOILERS WITHIN
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 07:43:17 PM »
If the two segments are sequential as suggested by the OP, then lots of things are possible.

However, if they are not, if the “Boy, tell me you’re not dumb enough to try this” scene comes somewhere later than the excerpt, then it means that Ebenezar survived the Cornerhounds.

Fifty-fifty, either way. I’m going with the latter.

Personally, I think that Jim is setting up the scene as Eb facing a foe he’s not sure that he can handle, worried about not being able to protect his grandson, Harry—and then Harry deals with the threat himself.

At which point, a flabbergasted Ebenezar turns to Harry and says, bewildered, “How’d you do that, Hoss?”

Because all of the Enemy bad guys seem to know that Harry is Starborn, but none of the good guys.

As far as “Oh, I’m more than dumb enough,” reply, I’m going to take a wild guess that in full, it’s immediately followed by, “...Because Thomas is my brother.”

Because Jim is evil enough to do that, and Priscilla is a good little Sith apprentice.

He also made a comment, WOJ, that major issues like Ebenezar finding out he has another grandson pop up at the worst time. And this certainly seems like a “worst time”.

Oh, I’m also guessing that the “dumb enough” comment is followed in short order by the scene of Harry crawling down what Priscilla (inadvertently, I’m sure) described as a “dumbwaiter” singing the Spider-Man theme.

“Dumb enough”. Dumbwaiter. Because I don’t think that Jim would be capable of resisting a pun like that.