On the nature of Entities...

[Yuillegan]

In the Dresden Files and its associated works, there is are many entities both large and small, powerful and weak, immortal and semi-mortal (perhaps long lived, but not truly immortal such as the Queens or Mantle holders, elves and gruffs and trolls etc fit into this category).

But there is scant information on how any of them came to be. How they become more than what they are. How they become strong enough to exist at all.

We know that belief and knowledge of the entity plays a significant part. Enough belief in something can make it godlike and conversely not enough belief can cause it to be locked out of reality.

But I find that interesting, because if they are merely locked out, they are not "dead". So what are they? Where are they? The novel the oblivion war features in (Back Up) mentions that the objective of the venators is to cause mortals to forget the magical being, and that the objective of the being is for enough mortals to believe in it so it may manifest and wield power. Not all, perhaps not even most, are gods. Yet they operate in very much the same way. A WOJ discusses how that if mortals all forgot about a previous Lucifer, would we even know? But he also says, somethings always will have a foot in the door as mortals will always wonder "who am I?" and "why am I here?"

On reading the Paranet Papers and the Dresden Files RPG, I noticed a passage that discussed how mortals create an idea and an entity rushes to fill that space. This is interesting on several counts. Firstly, the entity already exists in a way, but is shaped by the mortal idea. This then would provide the limits and the functions of this being. Secondly, it shows the tremendous power mortals have to shape reality. Finally, it shows an answer to the WOJ about how the beings themselves don't really change, just our understanding of them.

This also begs the question of how the Old Ones and the Outsiders fit in...they don't totally play by the rules. My feeling is they are not trying to gain worship or power, they have all they need in a way (chaos/the outside doesn't have limits?) but they do hate reality as it forces limitations upon them. And so they wish to torture and destroy it.

[Bad Alias]

Day One, the Butters short story, has an example of a species of supernatural being coming into existence. Some Japanese toy company creates a toy that "eats" children's nightmares. Children believe it. The creature comes into existence. It eats nightmares; you are what you eat; it becomes a monster.

In Cold Case, Ramirez informs us that the Old Ones require belief/knowledge (it's been a while since I read that one) to operate here, so they "need" it, at least to do whatever it is they want to do with Creation.

[Yuillegan]

Yes, Day One is an excellent example of what I am talking about. Harry even says to Butters when they are discussing what he is fighting "Kids believing in something has freaking power. It either created the real ones or it gave access to something similar from the Never-never that used that belief to create a place for itself in reality Harry of course is referring the baku/dream-eater entity.

And in Cold Case, Ramirez says that they feed off the psychic energy of people. Off their fear and knowledge of them. And Lovecraft helped with that, by publishing his works. The signal boost gave some of the Old Ones just that extra bit of access required to influence the world and so many cults devoted to them have popped up, particularly to Cthulu (the Sleeper).

Interestingly, Maeve refers to the prisoners below Demonreach as the Sleepers. Whilst I interpret that to mean that SOME of the inmates are Outsiders and/or Old Ones (especially considering Vadderung says that the release of the inmates would be The End), I don't believe that all of them are - considering the Naagloshii are not Outsiders (I am pretty sure).

I think the Outsider-type Entities have very different plans and goals to those from Inside. Just my thinking though. Jim constantly says the Oblivion War will not feature in the novels as it takes thousands of years to get anything done. But he could also be trying to misdirect our attention away from it as well. It does seem awfully similar to the tactic against Outsiders (locking them up, sometimes outside of reality, sometimes inside - and they all want more belief).

[Bad Alias]

The Lovecraftian creatures, old gods, Outsiders, and the Oblivion War all feel like they have a lot of overlap. I wouldn't be surprised if most/all of them were parts of the same fight, and Jim is intentionally being confusing on the issue.

Another thing is Mab had the Brothers Grimm publish fairy tales. Why is never explicitly confirmed, but my money is on belief. Jim has said Mab hates Walt Disney because his watering down of the fairy tales made mortals unprepared for the real thing. I can't help but wonder if she actually hates him because he watered down the fairies by watering down the stories.

My only contention with your original point is I disagree that "they are not trying to gain worship or power, they have all they need in a way." My disagreement is likely one of semantics. They are trying to gain those things in order to destroy reality. They don't have the power to do that as of now.

[Yuillegan]

Yeah exactly - I think it is all tied together.

Yeah I think again you are right, belief is necessary. Mab did NOT wish to be forgotten. And that is an interesting theory, she hates him because her mantle (one of savagery) has been somewhat weakened or mollified because of Disney. That would make her hate him on a deep almost base level.

As to your contention - I get what you're saying. I am saying that essentially because Inside, currently, they cannot express their full power. HWWBh has Uriel-level power, but has really weird limits apparently on when and where he can express that power. To me when I talk of Power, I am talking of energy. Your body is an biological machine that runs on energy, but cannot do much at all other than exist without a Will to use it. And the more Free that will is, the more it can use that energy in different and creative ways. But by the same token without a very functional body, or a with a low-energy body, even with the most Free Will in the world, you cannot do much either. It is about the balance, the ratio.

So to me, the Outsiders and their ilk the Old Ones have access to these enormous perhaps unlimited stores of energy but do not have Free Will whilst Inside. This pisses them off majorly and so wish to obliterate reality. But as you say the cannot do that yet, because of their limitations. Which I believe partially have to do with mortal choice, but also have to do with conjunctions as well. In the right circumstances they can bring all that Power to bear which would tear apart reality until it was returned to nothingness. I partially think they need more and more worship not to empower themselves, but to unlock their power, and creating misery and suffering help with this.

[Kindler]

Man, I'd like to create an entity that just gives out money to people who only walk through doorways backwards for a day.

Meme magic actually is real in the DV.

[Bad Alias]

The problem is that the creature from Day One was created as a guardian, but was twisted into a monster. My point being that you could create a benevolent creature that turns evil because of larger rules in the universe.