Candidates for future Nemfection?

[g33k]

@Mira
Jim plays fast and loose with biology.  On one hand he ascribes magic to a genetic combination.  On the other hand he he states to pass on magic you have to practice magic.  It doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's magic.




_{it doesn't have to make sense.}

[Mira]

I don't think the biologists understand it all that well.

@Mira
Jim plays fast and loose with biology.  On one hand he ascribes magic to a genetic combination.  On the other hand he he states to pass on magic you have to practice magic.  It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Think of wizards like Labrador Retrievers, species wise they are dogs ,  however genetically the Labrador loves water and has the drive to retrieve...  However not all Labs do, most are born sweet and happy, but won't retrieve a ball or duck, some are so obsessed with retrieving that they are considered hyper..  Some have the right combo of drive and intelligence, but to become a great hunting dog they have to be trained..   

[morriswalters]

@g33k
This is a deeper dive than I anticipated for an offhand remark.  The obvious problem is, if magic is required to produce baby wizards, how did you get the first wizard? 

@Mira
I understand what you mean, it's just that my head canon differs.

[Regenbogen]

The obvious problem is, if magic is required to produce baby wizards, how did you get the first wizard? 

LOL
I just imagined talking to my bosses about wizard genetics. Either they would laugh and hope I made a joke. Or they would instantly fire me. Or they would keep me on probation but I would definitely loose lots of competence points. 


Maybe the magic was in humans (and animals) from the beginning. There was a time when magic was everywhere. But the talent for feeling and using it manifests only in few individuals nowadays. Recessive inheritance.
That's why some children have it and some not even if the parents are non-magical. That way magic can be inherited over several generations without a wizard in the family. And when two recessive magic genes are combined, then the possibility of a baby wizard is not so high as with a wizard or two in the family but it exists.

And maybe by using magic, the magic genes can be made stronger so that the possibility of making a baby wizard is higher than with a wizard parent who doesn't use his or her magic.

[Mira]

@g33k
This is a deeper dive than I anticipated for an offhand remark.  The obvious problem is, if magic is required to produce baby wizards, how did you get the first wizard? 

@Mira
I understand what you mean, it's just that my head canon differs.

  Dogs are a good example because there is such a wide variety of them from the tiny tea cup poodle to a giant Irish Wolfhound and everything in between, long hair, short hair, hairless, all were bred for different things, look and act totally different from one another, but in the end, they are all dogs descended from a common animal.  That is the point..

[Bad Alias]

The obvious problem is, if magic is required to produce baby wizards, how did you get the first wizard? 

The theory that all mortal practitioners are descended from faeries would answer that question. Though I'd imagine if mortals first became supernatural by being scions, it wouldn't be limited to faeries.

The counter to this is that the beliefs of mortals, most of whom are not practitioners, shape reality. Practitioners are just better at it than non-practitioners.

[kbrizzle]

As mentioned before, I believe there is an obscure WoJ that most wizards are descendants of Changelings. So at some level in order to be able to do magic, you have to have the blood of the NeverNever in you.

This makes sense since magic in the DV relies a lot on the NN to power it (shapeshifters using it to store/ borrow mass etc).

@morriswalters
Completely agree, I like your point about shaping reality.

[morriswalters]

@kbrizzle
attribute that to Bad Alias.  More later.

[g33k]

Also dogs and coyotes. Either I've never found/been given the proper scientific definition of species, or it's a wrong/incomplete concept.

I believe that most modern biologists agree that "species" is an out-dated idea; still useful in some ways, the way Newtonian Physics is useful when launching satellites/spacecraft, even though it is known to be wrong (Einsteinian Physics is much closer to correct; but for most purposes the difference is negligible).

[morriswalters]

  Dogs are a good example because there is such a wide variety of them from the tiny tea cup poodle to a giant Irish Wolfhound and everything in between, long hair, short hair, hairless, all were bred for different things, look and act totally different from one another, but in the end, they are all dogs descended from a common animal.  That is the point..

Then Mira we agree, at least broadly.
@g33k
If you must drag Ebeneezer into this discussion use Newtonian Mechanics rather than physics.
@Bad Alias
I wish more people understood that concept better, when applied to ephemeral events.  Putting that aside though, I tend to think that Molly carried the gene and that her siblings didn't or that her siblings do and that if exposed to magic  for any long span of time that they would come into magic themselves.

[g33k]

...
@g33k
If you must drag Ebeneezer into this discussion use Newtonian Mechanics rather than physics ... 

  Point!

... Putting that aside though, I tend to think that Molly carried the gene and that her siblings didn't or that her siblings do and that if exposed to magic  for any long span of time that they would come into magic themselves.

I'm pretty sure we have WoJ that it was specifically due to Charity's magical behavior.  She was relatively-recently-active with Molly, but years-inactive with the others.

[Bad Alias]

I believe that most modern biologists agree that "species" is an out-dated idea; still useful in some ways, the way Newtonian Physics is useful when launching satellites/spacecraft, even though it is known to be wrong (Einsteinian Physics is much closer to correct; but for most purposes the difference is negligible).

My education on the subject is a good while back, and one's education is usually a decade or two out of date at the time it is received, so my education on the issue is probably cutting edge for the 80's or so. I have read recently that the field of evolution has been at a stand still for a "generation," a vague term that, based on the scientists mentioned, is likely to be at least two generations, so maybe my education was cutting edge since there wasn't a cutting edge at the time.

It was always very evident to me that the theory of evolution I was being taught wasn't fully baked as speciation was kind of an important part of the theory, and the definition of species resulted in humans being, necessarily, supernatural beings. But the scientific community was preaching evolution as inarguable fact. All that sort of thing does is damage credibility.

I tend to think that Molly carried the gene and that her siblings didn't or that her siblings do and that if exposed to magic  for any long span of time that they would come into magic themselves.

Plenty of genes are "activated" by things that happen in utero. Based on WoJ, I think there is a strong possibility that magical talent may be one of them.

As mentioned before, I believe there is an obscure WoJ that most wizards are descendants of Changelings.

I remember plenty of discussion about that idea here, but I don't recall the WoJ. If anyone can find it, that would be appreciated.

[Avernite]

My education on the subject is a good while back, and one's education is usually a decade or two out of date at the time it is received, so my education on the issue is probably cutting edge for the 80's or so. I have read recently that the field of evolution has been at a stand still for a "generation," a vague term that, based on the scientists mentioned, is likely to be at least two generations, so maybe my education was cutting edge since there wasn't a cutting edge at the time.

It was always very evident to me that the theory of evolution I was being taught wasn't fully baked as speciation was kind of an important part of the theory, and the definition of species resulted in humans being, necessarily, supernatural beings. But the scientific community was preaching evolution as inarguable fact. All that sort of thing does is damage credibility.

Sounds like you had bad teaching going on. Sorry for your lost hours during childhood.

Plenty of genes are "activated" by things that happen in utero. Based on WoJ, I think there is a strong possibility that magical talent may be one of them.

Absolutely, this seems a given based on the Carpenter example WoJed. But I think we may also be overdoing it, because the books don't have to follow evolutionary theory TOO closely, they're fiction (with magic!) after all. Maybe the right genes aren't activated, maybe the soul is simply exposed to the Nevernever more directly thus allowing latent wizardry to bloom.

[g33k]

I add emphasis:

... I believe there is an obscure WoJ that most wizards are descendants of Changelings ...

I suspect a great many NN beings can, potentially, be the cause of wizardry in their mortal descendepnts.  Scions of old gods, etc etc etc.

I suspect that YHWH wants there to be wizards in the world, and His agents can probably effect that... even where no occult/NN bloodline is involved.  Just as Uriel "nudged" Harry's casting vs. Thorned Namshiel in the Shedd to enable Harry's use of Soulfire, I suspect Dresdenverse angels can "nudge" a mortal who is intensely wishing/praying for something beneficial, enabling them to directly enact their wish.

I suspect there are other ways for wizardry to begin, too.  Maybe "most" are descendents of Changelings... but if "most" is the word used in the (presumed) WoJ... that clearly means that not all wizards are descended from Changelings!

[g33k]

... I believe there is an obscure WoJ that most wizards are descendants of Changelings ...

There is also, IIRC, the thing where Changelings can merge fully back into Faerie, or become fully human.

And the thing where Mab herself may once have been... mortal.

Not only are wizards biologically "human" ... so are the fae!
(biologically speaking.  Magic obviously gets a say, too)



_{<wanders off, whistling innocently>}