Small Favor Reread: Who Has Thorned Namshiel?

[g33k]

... or maybe Saluriel didn't WANT to go back to Cassius?

[Kindler]

Would YOU want to go back to him? He was already all old and used up. And he was a jerk.

There's also a question of whether or not you can even summon a Coin you've taken up and set aside. Michael seems to think there's a qualitative difference between touching one and never using it, and using it and repenting. I think it makes a bit of sense, because Sanya doesn't summon Magog's Coin to trap, right?

[Regenbogen]

I always thought, Sanya didn't summon the coin because of the temptation.
And I think the Fallen trapped in the coin has a say in if it wants to be summoned. And who it wants to connect to.
And I think the Church may have means to prevent a coin from being summoned. Maybe throw it in holy water or something like that.
The coin can be stolen though. or the protection taken away temporarily. Or it doesn't last so long so that it has to be renewed from time to time and the coin could be summoned in a state of weakened protection.
All just speculation.

[KurtinStGeorge]

None of the above.  (This isn't an original idea, others have posted this same thought years ago.)  Mr. Hendricks was in the helicopter firing the minigun with Gard flying and Luccio on the winch.  Marcone's bodyguard could have easily touched the coin; assuming it rolled out of Michel's bag and landed on the floor, without meaning to do so in the dark helicopter cabin.  I doubt Gard would have turned on any internal lighting until after they were out of range of groundfire.   

Someone once posted the reason Marcone was out of the country in Ghost Story was he had taken Mr. Hendricks to the Vatican for an exorcism or something similar.  That one seemed a bit far fetched to me.

Does anyone think that no matter who picked up Thorned Namshiel's coin, Nicodemus has it now and that was the coin he was offering to Goodman Grey near the end of Skin Game?  (Because, that's my guess.)

[Arjan]

Mab has it. Combine what Sanya tells us in small favor with what happened in Ghost Story and it seems obvious.

[Con]

I'm gonna go with Marcone has it. Just a hunch.

I like finding old threads and theories that have been revealed. Thought this one was worth reminding people of just a few short years ago.

[Mira]

None of the above.  (This isn't an original idea, others have posted this same thought years ago.)  Mr. Hendricks was in the helicopter firing the minigun with Gard flying and Luccio on the winch.  Marcone's bodyguard could have easily touched the coin; assuming it rolled out of Michel's bag and landed on the floor, without meaning to do so in the dark helicopter cabin.  I doubt Gard would have turned on any internal lighting until after they were out of range of groundfire.   

Someone once posted the reason Marcone was out of the country in Ghost Story was he had taken Mr. Hendricks to the Vatican for an exorcism or something similar.  That one seemed a bit far fetched to me.

Does anyone think that no matter who picked up Thorned Namshiel's coin, Nicodemus has it now and that was the coin he was offering to Goodman Grey near the end of Skin Game?  (Because, that's my guess.)

Yeah, if I remember correctly didn't Michael have the whole severed hand?  I think it fell out in the helicopter, this was Marcone's helicopter, and was found after the fact on the floor.  Also remember that coins seem to have a way of turning up where the best possible host for them will find them.  I think Marcone held off on accepting it, because he did have some fear of it, but when Chicago was under attack and he stood to lose everything, he picked it up, because he felt he needed to.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

He had had the coin for some time, he merely spent some time weighing up the Pro’s and Cons (he is an expert at both) and researching the matter before touching it and putting an offer to Namshiel he couldn’t refuse.

He has an idea about his own will from not succumbing to Lara, and he genuinely hated Nicky for leaving him vulnerable and weak in a way Harry never did, and having to be rescued by Harry to boot. He wanted to do nothing which would aid Nicky quite the opposite.

I think he tracked down all available records on Namshiel, which is why he was overseas.

[seanham]

I think Marcone held off on accepting it, because he did have some fear of it, but when Chicago was under attack and he stood to lose everything, he picked it up, because he felt he needed to.

I disagree that Marcone picked up Namshiel during PT/BG, I think Marcone trained with Namshiel for at least a year or two before BG. I agree that Marcone spent some time debating the pros and cons and researching before deciding to officially pick up the coin. In fact, I bet he spend some time making a formal contract with Namshiel and his abilities are at least a little reserved in order to have Macone stay in control. But there is no way that he would have worked as well as he did with Namshiel in the fight against Ethniu if that was the first time he picked up the coin.

[Mira]

I disagree that Marcone picked up Namshiel during PT/BG, I think Marcone trained with Namshiel for at least a year or two before BG. I agree that Marcone spent some time debating the pros and cons and researching before deciding to officially pick up the coin. In fact, I bet he spend some time making a formal contract with Namshiel and his abilities are at least a little reserved in order to have Macone stay in control. But there is no way that he would have worked as well as he did with Namshiel in the fight against Ethniu if that was the first time he picked up the coin.

I think he may have been a shadow in Marcone's head like Lasciel was in Harry's head and training him that way.  Remember Lasciel offered Harry a deal as well that they'd be partners like Anduriel and Nic.. However I don't think Marcone has had the coin all that long, he was too clumsy doing the magic.

He had had the coin for some time, he merely spent some time weighing up the Pro’s and Cons (he is an expert at both) and researching the matter before touching it and putting an offer to Namshiel he couldn’t refuse.

No, the other way around it was Namshiel doing the offering, not Marcone. 

[seanham]

However I don't think Marcone has had the coin all that long, he was too clumsy doing the magic.

How was he clumsy? He was able to perform advanced teleportation, create many and varying types of shields at the same time, and made concrete out of base elements. The only slightly clumsy thing he did was make the teacup top-heavy.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I suspect that Namshiel was surprised by Marcone - Nicky had obviously been restricting him in his hosts and his time out and the information he received as Nicky didn’t trust him.

When let out for Small Favour, it was obviously in part to counter Harry, as well as to run the big spells. Nicky probably told him about a young punk wizard, and yet Harry still got the drop on him. He was probably only brought out to deal with Senior Council previously or other major magical heavy hitters.With Marcone Namshiel had access to the soulgaze Marcone had done with Harry years before, and had access to Marcone files on Harry. He was A LOT more respectful towards Harry in BG, because he considers him now to be more of a peer, and understands that it was possible for Harry to have got the drop on him (due to Nicky) Marcone gave him the information which Nicky didn’t to win Namshiels trust and turn him against Nicky.

[Con]

I expect Marcone picked up the coin after dealing with the Fomor lord.

There's being cautious and not overplaying your hand and hen there's risking your life and those of two close subordinates because you didn't use a tool that was readily available to you.

The Fomor lord made Marcone realise he needed to upgrade.