Name someone you want to appear in Peace Talks

[Bad Alias]

I'd like to see Elder Brother Gruff. He's always fun, and we haven't seen him in a while.

[dspringer1]

Fun characters we have not seen in a while that make sense to be at Peace Talks
*  River Shoulders - per prior comments
*  Alphas - not for muscle, but they make great scouts and sentinels
*  Fitz - if the winter knight is there, the summer knight will be there, even if he is seriously depressed
*  Stallings will be there as I suspect the police will be involved to some extent
*  Marcone of course will be there along with his chief minions
*  Talos would be an interesting attendee - he was the chief follower of Aurora and probably dead/infected, but maybe not
*  Eldest Gruff is always a hoot at a party
*  Lara Raithe of course as a major participant
*  Mara for the same reason
*  The hellhound would be a great add - and I expect Ivy would be there as well in her role as arbiter.  I am pretty sure there is a Jim statement that says she will be there. 
*  Several members of the grey council - not sure which.  I suspect NOT Ebenezzer as he is their best battle mage and would be kept elsewhere with a strike team in case it is needed.  I would like more time with ancient mai myself. 
*  The Erlking - he normally disdains such things, but he has been getting involved a lot lately (relatively speaking....).  And you have to admit that he would have fun once the battle started....

Characters we  probably will not see
*  Gatekeeper - he has better things to do
*  Knights will not be there as that is not their role
*  No Fallen either - they have their own issues post Skin Game
*  Steed - that warden that controls time would be interesting, but the wardens like to keep him close to the HQ
*  Hades - not his role to get involved

[g33k]

...  I also think it's about time for Charity and Michael to find out about Molly's new job, so that's a reason why I want to see her this book ...

That particularly-personal, human-scale drama isn't relevant to a grand high-level-supernatural negotiation (or pre-apocalyptic throwdown).

This makes it a wonderful distraction/side-issue for Harry to have to face, of course... so it's very likely...

[Kindler]

*  Talos would be an interesting attendee - he was the chief follower of Aurora and probably dead/infected, but maybe not

I've been wondering about whether or not he's still alive. Summer Knight is unclear about his ultimate fate.

Characters we  probably will not see
*  Gatekeeper - he has better things to do
*  Knights will not be there as that is not their role
*  No Fallen either - they have their own issues post Skin Game
*  Steed - that warden that controls time would be interesting, but the wardens like to keep him close to the HQ
*  Hades - not his role to get involved

Agreed on everyone but the Gatekeeper. I think he's almost certain to be there. I believe the peace talks are too important for him to miss. In fact, I think there's a reasonable chance that the Gatekeeper knows why it's important with regard to future events, and may attempt to interfere to (like he did in Proven Guilty) to tilt events in favor of... reality itself, I presume.

Basically, I think the talks are going to be a major event that will have enormous ramifications on the direction of the DV's world. We're getting close to the apocalypse now; we are, at most, a decade away (in-universe, assuming no significant timeskips of 2-10 years or something) from the end of the Case Files and the start of the BAT. Even if the BAT takes place years after the last case file, unless Jim intends to clear the board of lots of Harry's mortal allies (characters he's spent the entire series developing, like Murphy), I don't think it's going to take place any later than, say, twenty years in the DV's future.

So, I think that the proximity of the Talks to the apocalypse and the fact that it's going to be a gathering of Supernatural Powers the likes of which we've never seen in the series (and may not have happened since the Unseelie Accords were signed) kinda assures that the Gatekeeper will be there, at least for part of it, in my opinion. It's way too important for him to miss, Gatekeeping duties aside.

I think this book is as important as Changes or Grave Peril to the DV, in terms of ramifications.

[Bad Alias]

unless Jim intends to clear the board of lots of Harry's mortal allies

This made me think of Skin Game where Kringle asked Harry what he had. The answer was friends. Changes was about Harry loosing everything, but he didn't. He kept, excepting Susan, everything that was truly important to him. Either Jim is a lot softer than he pretends to be, or this does not bode well for Harry. (I kinda lean to the first explanation).

[Braincandy]

That particularly-personal, human-scale drama isn't relevant to a grand high-level-supernatural negotiation (or pre-apocalyptic throwdown).

This makes it a wonderful distraction/side-issue for Harry to have to face, of course... so it's very likely...

It's all but guaranteed. Harry is in Maggie's life now. She is at the Carpenters. Harry is going to be there. Molly will likely be there too for all the obvious reasons. Micheal likely already knows. It's due to happen.

There are two people all but guaranteed to be there and I can't wait. The Archive, we haven't seen her and Kincaid in a while. She's a young adult now, I need an update. Two, Ferrovax. He is a big player, this is a huge Accords meeting.

Lastly, my wild card is someone from the Jade Court. I believe they are signatories of the accords. If they are ever going to show, this is among the most likely times.

[Yuillegan]

I think there is an old WOJ about the Jade Court very actively not being involved, and might only appear in the BAT. But who knows, Jim does change things up.

But yeah, definitely the Senior Council and most of the White Council. The Fomor, the Fae, the White Court, Marcone are all pretty much guaranteed. Possibly Mavra and whatever remains of the Black Court. I highly, highly doubt the Denarians considering the last book. And they tend mostly to show up every 5 books so probably not until the very last Case File. Ferrovax is a distinct possibility, considering his presence at Bianca's ascension. Incredibly powerful being shows up at some schmuck Vampire thing? Probably doesn't bode well - and is highly significant. Maybe the other dragon perhaps? I also hope Drakul finally makes his big entrance, but we'll see. I suspect some Monoc Securities presence, plus svartalves etc. Would be fantastic to see any other interesting signatories, such as the semi-divine immortal shapeshifting guru from the Ukraine.

And of course, even if they are not announced as being there - the Black Council/the Circle. They will definitely have a presence there. And will stir things right up. I wonder if we might even see Cowl and Kumori - we are actually due to see them. Whether they will attend the actual talks openly is another matter.

[g33k]

... But yeah, definitely the Senior Council and most of the White Council. The Fomor, the Fae, the White Court, Marcone are all pretty much guaranteed. Possibly Mavra and whatever remains of the Black Court. I highly, highly doubt the Denarians considering the last book. And they tend mostly to show up every 5 books so probably not until the very last Case File. Ferrovax is a distinct possibility, considering his presence at Bianca's ascension. Incredibly powerful being shows up at some schmuck Vampire thing? Probably doesn't bode well - and is highly significant. Maybe the other dragon perhaps? I also hope Drakul finally makes his big entrance, but we'll see. I suspect some Monoc Securities presence, plus svartalves etc. Would be fantastic to see any other interesting signatories, such as the semi-divine immortal shapeshifting guru from the Ukraine.

I think this book will serve, in a meta sense, to lay the groundwork for the BAT.  Some prior Dresdenfile elements will get eliminated (killed, retired, etc).  New ones, playing up at the Next Level, will get screen-time.

• The Accorded Baron of Chicago is obviously going to HOST this shindig; of course Marcone will be there!
• The Fomor, because (afaict) they are among the most-active creators of conflict, and there's no real point of "peace talks" if the worst of the aggressors don't participate.
• Mab will be there, because these are her Accords and it looks like it's going to be a Really Big Deal under the Accords.
• Titania will be there, because Summer and Winter move in balance.
• Maybe not the Erlking, because he hates formal-protocol events; but maybe he needs to be there, because he can't afford to have his interests go un-represented... so he's there, but pissed about it.
• I don't see the Svartalven interest; but I'd love to see more of them!  Maybe Jim has need of them in the BAT/pre-BAT, and this is the time to bring them into the mainstream of the novels; or maybe Jim just wants more seats at the table, more elements in play when everything blows up.
• Possibly some new Faerie element, a new Court or other power?  Because more faeries is just exactly what Harry needs...
• The Denarians, led by Tessa:  arguing that only Nicodemus Archleone / Anduriel are in violation of the Accords, and the rest of the Denarians (i.e. "the Denarians" as a group) are still nice little Accordians <sound of kazoo playing waa-waa-waa>.
• I cannot imagine Lara being willing to let an negotiation of this magnitude pass, without having a voice at the table!
• At least half of the Senior Council will be there (possibly a voting majority (to make their agreements binding); possibly the entire Senior Council (because they no longer need the security precaution of not-all-S.Councilors-onstage-at-once)), plus Wardens for security (Luccio dies (heroically) here:  she has become less story-important, but it'll still tear Harry up emotionally; and she has become magically much weaker (so vulnerable)).
• Resurgent Blampires, united under Kemmlerian Queen Mavra (again, this will fuck with Harry's head).
• Drakul -- This might be an interesting addition, given his backstory with the Blampires; and we've seen LOTS of interesting speculations as to who/what Drakul really IS... so it's probably time for him/it to come on-screen in the BAT-ramp-up.
• Ferrovax (as you say -- he was there for Bianca's event, and this is more substantive).
• I'm of two minds regarding Ivy -- on the one hand, I want to see more of her, and we haven't yet seen "young adult Ivy."  OTOH (from a strategic Oblivion-War perspective) it looks incredibly stupid to risk the Archive at an event where this many high-powered players are attending.
• Cowl will be there, overtly and recognizably, going "Really, Dresden, you cannot attack me here at your own Queen's Accorded Neutral event!"  Dunno if we'll actually learn any more about Cowl or about the "Circle." (Yet again, Harry gets freaked-out:  so. many. villains.)
• Vadderung, possibly in several roles -- Monoc providing extra security; Odin as... well, Odin; Kringle as part of the Winter Court delegation; maybe others, just for Jim to bemuse Harry?

[toodeep]

This is an accords event, so I assume only beings who have signed the accords will be there, so know knights of the cross, denarians, Erl King (I doubt he signed), or subgroups like the grey council (openly) being there.  But there is a lot of room since we don't know who all the signatories are, and if all of them will come, but I anticipate the ones we know are in conflict will be there.  In approximate order of likelihood:

• Marcone as the host will be there.
•The Fomor as the primary antagonists will be there.
•Winter will be there as the source of the accords, though whether Mab will be there or whether she will just send a contingent headed by her lady and knight remains to be seen.
•The White Council, since we know from the first chapter they are coming, and that Harry will not be part of their contingent.
•Summer will be there.  I anticipate Titania will not being present in person.  After all the accords were created and put together without Titania and Mab meeting (since the last time they talked was at Hastings), so I assume she will send elder gruff as her representative.
•Svartalven will be there as after the Bombshells short story they are definitely an interested party.
•Lara and her father, as they are definitely an interested party.  She will be pressing for control of North America.
•Vadderung representing Monoc, since they are their own signatories and we know that he's a meddler.   

Possible but not certain
•Black Court Mavra
•Drakul
•Ferrovax
•Ivy
None of these have a pressing reason to be there, as they are not really jockeying to fill or retain power positions.  As individual powers (or fairly small secret group like the Black Court) they aren't threatened on a personal level by the territorial squabbles so they will only be there if they wish to "meddle" like Odin does.  Jade Court falls in here as a possibility only if some power is intruding into their territory

Others/thoughts
•I do not believe Cowl will be there unless he is actually still on the White Council (which I doubt).
•I believe there will be a representative/team from the Greek pantheon.  We know Hades is active and potentially meddling, and we know a later book is supposed to involve them as they are active as a group to some degree.  It is likely if they are active as a group that they are signatories.  I think it likely we will get a light introduction to them here as a set up for the later deeper dive.

We should get introductions to a bunch of other power groups too, since right now we have no idea who the different powers fighting over the former red court territory even are, and all of them should be at this conference.

I do think there is a specific concern about the idea of having Mab, Titania, and beings like Ferrovax at a conference together.  We know beings of a certain power level start to warp reality around them in a dangerous way, which is why the mothers essentially never come to earth.  Packing a bunch of unique superpowered beings together is dangerous to reality even if they all get along, so it seems to me that a lot of the attendees might be limited to functionaries of the powerful beings and those who represent large organizations of less powerful beings.

[g33k]

This is an accords event, so I assume only beings who have signed the accords will be there... denarians ... Erl King (I doubt he signed) ...

The Denarians absolutely are (or at least were) signatories.  That was the whole point of the plot in Small Favor -- they kidnapped Marcone so Harry would call in Ivy as arbiter under the Accords.  It's possible that Nic's actions have violated the Accords sufficient to get kicked out; I presume that if this is so, they'll want to press for such an exile only applying to Nic, with Tessa the "lead signatory" now.

In the scene where Harry and Susan were in the Erlking's throne-room, they seemed to be negotiating under something like Accord-style rules (admittedly, that may have just been  similar-ish "faerie" rules, when the Erlking said he needed to blow dust from the old courtesies).

The Erlking explicitly said he didn't want to needlessly antagonize the Red King... and later that the RK wouldn't dare face a united Faerie-realm if he violated the results of the duel; presumably THAT would be an Accorded matter, as the Ramps aren't Fae.

On balance, it looks like Erl is a signatory.


OTOH, on the DF wiki (which afaik is unofficial/noncanonical, (but highly accurate)) I see my supposition confirmed about the Denarians (but not Nic) still being signatory; but it lists "Both Faerie Courts" and the "Svartalves"... but not Erlking or the Goblins...
 

[toodeep]

OTOH, on the DF wiki (which afaik is unofficial/noncanonical, (but highly accurate)) I see my supposition confirmed about the Denarians (but not Nic) still being signatory; but it lists "Both Faerie Courts" and the "Svartalves"... but not Erlking or the Goblins...

Nick specifically says he is no longer a member of the accords in Skin Game, and it is strongly implied its because of him breaking it to capture the Archive.  While I suppose from the text it is possible Nick is no longer a member but the rest of the Denarians are, I think that is unlikely considering literally every free Denarian was involved in the attack on her.

[Bad Alias]

If I recall correctly, the Denarians weren't a member of the Accords as the Denarians. Harry says "I'd have to look it up. ... I doubt they're signed on as the 'Order of Demon-possessed Psychotics.'" - Small Favor, Chapter 14.

[Kindler]

They were Signatories. Nicodemus mentions that he/the Denarians aren't any longer in Skin Game when Harry mentions that he's a member of the Accords twice (as a White Council member and the Winter Knight). I think Small Favor ended his membership.

[g33k]

What makes you say Carlos is organizing the talks? Do we even know who is hosting them?

Pretty sure there is WOJ that Carlos is running Security.  That implies WC is the host; but maybe he's just running the WC's own security-detail to the shindig...?

I'm seeing the Baron of Chicago as the natural "host" of the event; I presume he'd primarily use Monoc forces, but might get some WC/Warden security, too (and maybe other parties... Kenku, anyone?  Svartalves?).  I mean, if Ferrovax showed up and decided to flex his power, I doubt all those together would even slow him down...  But some of the other attendees would give even Mr.F pause.

Signing the Accords is a claim that you have enough power to play in those leagues, and the site "security" isn't meant to control the attendees, just to keep lesser annoyances & distractions to a minimum.

Maybe Lara Raith as co-host?  Being the Power Behind the Throne is all well and good, and Whamp-catspaw-ish... But it's also a terrible weakness, because unmasking her as PBtT would be a politically-fatal move.  So she could make this event her Official Debut, eliminating the weakness with a side-order for other Houses of "and you were all too stupid to see it."  Add Whamp-resources to the security-forces!

With a bunch of different parties, there'll have to be an overall Boss of security... Maybe THAT'S Carlos???  But he seems awfully junior for THAT role... So, I dunno.
 

[123Chikadee]

I think there's a WOJ that Ivy will show up as a mediator. So if she's there, then so's Kincaid.
I think Carlos is security for the WC representatives and we'll probably get a few Senior Council members. I bet Eb is gonna be one of them since it's been three books since we've seen him. I doubt the Merlin is gonna want to miss this, hence the beefed up security.
I bet Lara and her dad are gonna be there, since I don't think the latter can't afford to not show up. There's too much of an 'I know that you know' kind of deal with Lara being the power behind the throne that they'd need to keep up appearances with such a formal event.
The Formor for sure.
Hm, if the Queens themselves don't show up, and I kinda doubt it when they've got Ladies and Knights to do that. Plus, we have seen a lot of Mab lately, so she might not be in this one too much. But yeah we'll see both the Ladies, so Fix'll be there as well.
Denarians are right out.
Hm, I don't think we'll see Mavra. Oh, she might be a behind the scenes person, but I think her big reprise is gonna be in Mirror Mirror.
Cowl for sure and I think Kumori is still alive, so her too.
Hm, I'm not too sure if there is going to be an overall head of security. I feel like it might be more of each security person has to work together and Ivy is going to make sure they play nice as well.