Author Topic: What does the White Council Do?  (Read 9012 times)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2019, 08:50:54 PM »
@noblehunter: 2, 3, and 4 all reinforce purpose 0, which in turn, allows them to pursue purpose 1.

Offline Con

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2019, 03:26:01 PM »
1.Laws of Magic
2. Governing body of human magic. Stops wizards and humans with magic getting involved in mortal international affairs.
3. International Supernatural Politics. Mainly to do with the Accords. Luccio had to intervene with the Accord and the Denarians. Albeit with Dresden implying Mab's wrath.
4.Fighting other supernatural threats: The Black Court Purge, Kemmler and his disciples (including WW1), The Red Court, The Fomor, White Court on and off, The Rakshasa thing.
5. Miscellaneous Important roles in Supernatural Circles: The Gatekeeper, The Blackstaff, The Warden.

Number 4 has atleast half a dozen examples. Seems to be their main purpose other than the laws.

Plus according to Luccios lengthy discussing/debate with Harry. Stopping Wizard's from getting involved in mortal international affairs. This is also corrobaratted by WOJ that one of the White Councils purpose is to stop Wizards from advising/becoming kings and emperors. @Serack any help with that quote.

Quote from: WOJ
They kinda /do/ win.  It’s one reason the White Council thinks of itself as something so ohmygodmighty important.  But bear in mind a few things:
1) The White Council /exists/ in order to limit the power of wizards.  These days, it’s mostly about keeping wizards out of the black magic–but in the past, it was also to keep wizards out of politics.  They would show up as advisers, rarely (most “court wizards” were charlatans or underpowered schmucks), but the Council itself was very much against getting involved in things.

That’s mainly because if the Council threw its weight in anywhere, it was all but guaranteeing a civil war among its own members.  (Remember, it’s very Euro-centric.)

The original Merlin learned a lesson about wizards involving themselves in politics.  They already have too much power to use wisely, from his point of view.

There's a few other relevent things about the White Council their powers in that WOJ as well. How Wizards were rarer in the past yet could travel faster then most using Ways up until Cars, Trains and Planes.

Quote from: WOJ
2) Wizards were a hell of a lot more rare in centuries past.  Their numbers have increased along with the world population, but back then a given country was lucky if it had produced a single wizard-level talent more than about one generation in three.

3) Travel in general was a lot harder.  Disease, in general, was a lot more rampant and likely to kill you.  Yeah, wizards have the capacity to recover from things, but they don’t have any particular increased resistance to contracting a disease.  They just come back from it in better shape than regular folks.  For example, if you get a good case of pneumonia (like I did), you’ve got a reduced capacity to resist subsequent similar infections.  And that’s it.  In fact, having gotten pneumonia once gives you a pretty darn big mathematical probability that you’re going to die of pneumonia in the future.  (Pneumonia being one of the main things that actually does the killing when you’ve got cancer or other serious medical issues.)  Wizards don’t face that same danger.  If they beat it, they beat it, and it isn’t of any more consequence than getting over a cold.

But even so, before antibiotics, wizards were as worried about disease as everyone else was.  And a great way to not get diseases was to STAY HOME.  Which most of them did.  That kinda limited how much conflict they would actually get involved in.

4) The Inquisition.  Fact of the matter is that the Inquisition, for better or worse, made everyone REALLY aware of practitioners.  If a wizard started slinging his power around willy nilly, it would attract attention.  Probably /hostile/ attention, at that.  Which leads us to…

5) Wizards have to sleep.  Yes, an enraged wizard could probably kill just about anyone he wanted to, flatten towns, all the mighty wizard stuff.  But… there are about a million humans to every full-blown wizard talent.  A strong wizard can kill a mortal with about as much effort as it would take you to pick up a piece of gravel and toss it twenty feet.  Now, go out to a gravel pile and do that a MILLION times.

More on the ability to travel giving them power and influence

Quote from: WOJ
Of course, that leaves many, many other things they could do to influence events.  The most powerful such was the gathering of information and rapid communications.  Their ability to travel rapidly, to gather information and send it elsewhere was something that didn’t really get beat until a Mr. Ford, Mr. Marconi, and some guys named Orville and Wilbur came along.  And they were basically in the information business, which is an excellent way to guarantee security.

There's this important bit that kinda counters stopping wizards from having influence but I think shows the delicate game they play with Mortal history and culture

Quote from: WOJ
They were also largely responsible for the Renaissance, in the Dresden universe.  Not directly, but by going out and finding the best and brightest minds and seeing to it that they got the education and the chances they needed to succeed in life.  Some wizards even did direct mentoring of various brilliant figures of European history (DaVinci and Gallileo were two prime examples).

But they stayed out of direct involvement in wars and politics, instead focusing on becoming involved in the intellectual progress of society.  Wizards from France and Germany, for example, would treat each other much the same way as opposing lawyers in a big case.  Even when their clients were tearing each other to bits, that didn’t meant that the two wizards were foes.  They were, in fact, professional colleagues, who were likely to go off and get a beer and roll their eyes at their clients’ foolishness.

and finally how they lost alot of there power or were kept in check.

Quote from: WOJ
(All of this is mostly focused on the White Council, which was centered in Europe.  Wizards in other areas of the world, such as the Americas, eastern Asia, and Australia have far different histories.)

But that factor–the sheer weight of numbers of mortals–dictated the role they had to assume to survive and prosper.  They hoped that a more advanced, less warlike culture would provide a better place for wizards to live. In fact, it did.  But it also robbed them of the extreme power they’d possessed until that time, relative to vanilla mortals.

6) PEOPLE BELIEVED IN MAGIC AND IT SCARED THEM.  I mean, there was none of this “but there’s no such thing as magic” nonsense involved.  And not all the witch hunters were in it for the money.  There was a class of men who knew all about the various forces of the supernatural, out there in the darkness, and who made themselves as able to contend with them as any mortal could be.  If a wizard went all kaboomy on mortals, he knew that there was someone who was going to hunt him, striking in a moment of vulnerability.

(I’ll leave it to you to deduce who they grew up into, eventually.  It isn’t complicated or hard to see.)

End of the day, even wizards bleed.  And as the wise Governor of California says, if it bleeds, you can kill it.

Sorry for the quote dump.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 05:22:32 PM »
Quote
(I’ll leave it to you to deduce who they grew up into, eventually.  It isn’t complicated or hard to see.)
I haven't seen much on this. Is everyone agreed that it's the Venatori Umbrorum? That's the only one that seems not complicated or hard to see for me.

Offline g33k

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2019, 09:12:09 PM »
I haven't seen much on this. Is everyone agreed that it's the Venatori Umbrorum? That's the only one that seems not complicated or hard to see for me.

Dunno...  I thought they were created as a cover-organization by the original Venatori of the Oblivion War...?

I guess wizard-hunters could have been co-opted as a cover.  Wizards&witches would seem to be the obvious ones to be harboring the sorts of information that those older Venatori might want to suppress, so... maybe?

Maybe the O.W.Venatori decided to unify a bunch of previously separate groups of wizard-hunters under the "V.Umbrorum" umbrella, and hide themselves as "invisible cells" within the larger organization?

I'm kind of inclined to look at the witch-hunts of the Inquisition, which points to the Ordo Malleus...
 

Offline exartiem

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2019, 09:59:50 PM »
The purpose of the council is, ultimately, to look after itself.  Everything it does is an extension of this self-serving altruism.

The laws are to ensure that no one wizard becomes powerful enough to enslave them or destroy them, or from enslaving or enraging humanity which would accomplish the same thing.  They train young wizards, kill warlocks, suppress supernatural threats and keep magic a secret to this end. 

They guard reality from Outsiders because this reality is where they keep their stuff.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2019, 06:08:22 PM »
Dunno...  I thought they were created as a cover-organization by the original Venatori of the Oblivion War...?

I guess wizard-hunters could have been co-opted as a cover.  Wizards&witches would seem to be the obvious ones to be harboring the sorts of information that those older Venatori might want to suppress, so... maybe?

Maybe the O.W.Venatori decided to unify a bunch of previously separate groups of wizard-hunters under the "V.Umbrorum" umbrella, and hide themselves as "invisible cells" within the larger organization?

I'm kind of inclined to look at the witch-hunts of the Inquisition, which points to the Ordo Malleus...

I just can't think of another candidate group that they "grew up" into that's in the books. There aren't many candidates. The only human occult organizations we know of are the Venatori Umbrorum and the Thule Society. I'd say it's the Thule Society because the one time they were noted, they were considered enemies of the White Council, but they were first mentioned in A Fistful of Warlocks, which was published after the WoJ.

Offline Avernite

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2019, 06:36:24 PM »
Dunno...  I thought they were created as a cover-organization by the original Venatori of the Oblivion War...?

I guess wizard-hunters could have been co-opted as a cover.  Wizards&witches would seem to be the obvious ones to be harboring the sorts of information that those older Venatori might want to suppress, so... maybe?

Maybe the O.W.Venatori decided to unify a bunch of previously separate groups of wizard-hunters under the "V.Umbrorum" umbrella, and hide themselves as "invisible cells" within the larger organization?

I'm kind of inclined to look at the witch-hunts of the Inquisition, which points to the Ordo Malleus...

I agree the Malleus makes sense - which grew/evolved into Forthill's club. Men of the Church standing sentinel against the darkness of the supernatural world.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: What does the White Council Do?
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2019, 06:50:11 PM »
I'm kind of inclined to look at the witch-hunts of the Inquisition, which points to the Ordo Malleus...

When I read that, my brain went to the malleus maleficarum, and thought you were referencing something from outside the Dresden Files. I forgot about them. They do make a decent candidate, but I'd imagine a group which formerly hunted wizards would be more impressive than what we know of Father Forthill's order. Especially if they've "grown up" from that instead of something like, "become." But that could just be parsing Jim's words too carefully.