How often does Harry's withholding of information actually get people hurt...

[Kindler]

I'll go book by book to jog my memory.

1. The second Sells/Beckitt victim, the prostitute... Jenny? The one he meets at the airport. She's the only one Harry may have been able to intervene for, and even then, he pulls a classic sitcom mistake and schedules two dates at the same time. So he was in the process of attempting to help her when the storm broke and she got a bad case of heart...explosion. Maybe, if he had told her that her heart was in danger of exploding out of her chest, she may have taken it more seriously and come to him earlier for help. But I chalk it up to a case of missed opportunity rather than withholding information.
2. Kim. I can go either way on this one. It's not really Harry's fault because he was deceived.
3. Susan. Nope, Susan made her own bed. She picked up the Idiot Ball and ran with it. What she did was way more dangerous than even what war correspondents do when they report from the field; it's very rare that you see a reporter go to an ISIS party to chase down a story about a day in the life of a terrorist.
4. Summer Knight... nothing comes to mind. The only people involved are either clued in, or, in Murphy's case, get clued in.
5. Death Masks... nothing on this one. The only death I can recall is Shiro, and he knew more than Harry (including that he was going to die).
6. Blood Rites... there's an argument to be made about the actresses on set. I think Harry could have outright told the producer (Genosa? I can't remember) that there WAS a curse, but I think he kept it vaguer than necessary. But I can go either way on this one.
7. Dead Beat... he clues Butters in pretty well. No, I don't think there's anyone he kept anything from (unless you count Luccio?) who got hurt because of it.
8. Proven Guilty. This time, it happened to Harry. If Molly had gone to him with what she knew about her magic, Proven Guilty pretty much doesn't happen. Ditto Thomas shadowing Harry all over town instead of being up front with him.
9. White Night. Nothing comes to mind. Harry's pretty up front with the Ordo. The only thing he held back at first was Beckitt's criminal past, and that didn't affect much.
10. Small Favor. Again, it was done to Harry with his blasting rod (which I've always thought was an unnecessarily macho term for "wand.") Harry lays out his cards pretty openly. Michael's the one who got hurt, but not because Harry didn't say "Hey, watch out for Ak-47s."
11. Turn Coat. Nope. Nada.
12. Changes. Again, this happened TO Harry. If Susan had told him they'd had a daughter, Harry would've made it his business to incinerate anyone who looked at her the wrong way. There's an argument to be made that he shouldn't have brought Molly along (and we all saw the consequences there). And Susan... Harry manipulated her at the altar. He telepathically told Susan that Martin's knife couldn't hurt her because of her Fae armor, but knew it was a lie (since the blade was steel). He convinced her to kill Martin, knowing she'd drain him and turn, all so he could kill the Red Court.
13. Ghost Story. Nothing comes to mind.
14. Cold Days. Molly, maybe? Not really, though. He doesn't withhold much of anything from her.
15. Skin Game. The only one who's hurt is Murphy, and she went in with open eyes.

So I think there are only a few across the whole series. Maybe there are some examples in the short stories, but I don't recall most of them in great detail.

[nadia.skylark]

If Kirby had known, for instance, that Harry was being pursued by something on the Skinwalker's level, he might have been a bit more cautious rather than strolling back talking on a cell phone that lit up his face and made him a target.

He might have been more cautious. But A) he knew something super-bad might be out there already, because Will and Georgina had seen the state that Harry arrived in; and B) so long as he was out patrolling at all, the Skinwalker would have got him--it's just too good.

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't really know what Harry's told them about the dangers out there. Harry wasn't prepared for the skinwalker, so I have a hard time imagining he could have sufficiently prepared the Alphas.

The bottom line is that the case of Kirby is a weak argument for Harry's withholding of information being harmful.

This.

Well, evidently Billy thought so.

Yes, but he was quite explicitly coming from a place of ignorance. For all he knew, these things were as common as faeries, and with similar weaknesses.

1. The second Sells/Beckitt victim, the prostitute... Jenny? The one he meets at the airport. She's the only one Harry may have been able to intervene for, and even then, he pulls a classic sitcom mistake and schedules two dates at the same time. So he was in the process of attempting to help her when the storm broke and she got a bad case of heart...explosion. Maybe, if he had told her that her heart was in danger of exploding out of her chest, she may have taken it more seriously and come to him earlier for help. But I chalk it up to a case of missed opportunity rather than withholding information.
2. Kim. I can go either way on this one. It's not really Harry's fault because he was deceived.
3. Susan. Nope, Susan made her own bed. She picked up the Idiot Ball and ran with it. What she did was way more dangerous than even what war correspondents do when they report from the field; it's very rare that you see a reporter go to an ISIS party to chase down a story about a day in the life of a terrorist.
4. Summer Knight... nothing comes to mind. The only people involved are either clued in, or, in Murphy's case, get clued in.
5. Death Masks... nothing on this one. The only death I can recall is Shiro, and he knew more than Harry (including that he was going to die).

All of this.

6. Blood Rites... there's an argument to be made about the actresses on set. I think Harry could have outright told the producer (Genosa? I can't remember) that there WAS a curse, but I think he kept it vaguer than necessary. But I can go either way on this one.

As I recall, it was Genosa that first realized it was a curse, which is why he hired Harry. And I'm pretty sure Harry told him explicitly after that girl was electrocuted in the shower (which was when he got confirmation).

7. Dead Beat... he clues Butters in pretty well. No, I don't think there's anyone he kept anything from (unless you count Luccio?) who got hurt because of it.
8. Proven Guilty. This time, it happened to Harry. If Molly had gone to him with what she knew about her magic, Proven Guilty pretty much doesn't happen. Ditto Thomas shadowing Harry all over town instead of being up front with him.
9. White Night. Nothing comes to mind. Harry's pretty up front with the Ordo. The only thing he held back at first was Beckitt's criminal past, and that didn't affect much.
10. Small Favor. Again, it was done to Harry with his blasting rod (which I've always thought was an unnecessarily macho term for "wand.") Harry lays out his cards pretty openly. Michael's the one who got hurt, but not because Harry didn't say "Hey, watch out for Ak-47s."
11. Turn Coat. Nope. Nada.
12. Changes. Again, this happened TO Harry. If Susan had told him they'd had a daughter, Harry would've made it his business to incinerate anyone who looked at her the wrong way. There's an argument to be made that he shouldn't have brought Molly along (and we all saw the consequences there). And Susan... Harry manipulated her at the altar. He telepathically told Susan that Martin's knife couldn't hurt her because of her Fae armor, but knew it was a lie (since the blade was steel). He convinced her to kill Martin, knowing she'd drain him and turn, all so he could kill the Red Court.
13. Ghost Story. Nothing comes to mind.
14. Cold Days. Molly, maybe? Not really, though. He doesn't withhold much of anything from her.
15. Skin Game. The only one who's hurt is Murphy, and she went in with open eyes.

And all of this.

[morriswalters]

He thought it might have made a difference. I just don't see how it would have. The problem is we don't really know that much about how and what the Alphas do. It's mentioned repeatedly how hard it is to impress the dangers of the world on the young, so I'm not sure Harry could have changed anything by informing the Alphas that there are great and terrible powers out there.

I would have insisted on full disclosure if I were Billy too. I'm not a "no questions asked" kind of guy if I'm helping someone do something. It doesn't even have to be a dangerous something.

Look, it's Harry's, he owns it.  He led it to them and it killed them.  They couldn't make an informed choice because he kept them in the dark.  It isn't that they might not die but rather that they didn't fully understand the risks.  And this is true in all the early books, with Kim Delaney and Susan.  Both were foolish, but it's one thing to be foolish and another to be ignorant and foolish.  Turn Coat is the last time it's an issue.  So I'll call it three times, to speak to the OP's point.

[Mira]

Look, it's Harry's, he owns it.  He led it to them and it killed them.  They couldn't make an informed choice because he kept them in the dark.  It isn't that they might not die but rather that they didn't fully understand the risks.  And this is true in all the early books, with Kim Delaney and Susan.  Both were foolish, but it's one thing to be foolish and another to be ignorant and foolish.  Turn Coat is the last time it's an issue.  So I'll call it three times, to speak to the OP's point.

Um, he warned both Kim and Susan as best he could, let's not forget some information Harry isn't at liberty to share...  Let's be fair here,  did Kim tell Harry why she really wanted the plans?  No...  When Harry mentioned that such a circle was only used to contain the likes of archangels and demigods, did she say who or what she was trying to contain?  NO!  Her answer was sheer stupidity about Harry thinking she isn't strong enough to build such a circle.. Even if Harry had given her ALL the information it is doubtful that she could have pulled it off under pressure...

Susan, what more could Harry have told her?   All she cared about was getting a story so she blew off Harry's warnings about the party and who was there, hell he didn't want to go it was so dangerous...  After witnessing the run in with the Loop, and the Frog Demon in Storm Front you'd think she'd trust Harry's word when he says something is just too dangerous for mere vanilla mortals to come up against... The smart thing would have been to trust his word and use common sense... When someone tells you not to touch the red hot stove, don't touch it or you might get badly burned...  She was, and Kim paid with her life..   Both had pretty informed choices to make and they made them, they chose to disregard Harry's warnings.  It's like a mine field with signs that say, "DO NOT GO INTO THE MINE FIELD, DANGER!!!!"  You know mines can kill, you know they can rip off arms and legs etc.... You've been told by an explosives expert that these are very powerful mines easily triggered and they can reduce you to a red stain in the dirt...   But you've never seen this yourself, and though this person is an expert, he has to be over protective, just how dangerous can they really be?  You make your informed choice and take a walk in the marked field... You may get lucky and not trip anything, does that make the warnings wrong?  Or you step on one and are reduced to red goo...  You made an informed choice, what more information could the explosive expert have given you to keep you out of that damn field?

[nadia.skylark]

Look, it's Harry's, he owns it.

Harry feels guilty for just about everything bad that happens to the people around him, regardless of whether he's actually at fault. Given this, Harry's guilt does not appear to be an accurate indicator of whether or not Harry's actually responsible for something.

He led it to them and it killed them.

Yeah, but that's an entirely different issue. It's got nothing to do with information-sharing.

They couldn't make an informed choice because he kept them in the dark.

An informed choice about what? Fighting monsters generally? Well, Harry may not have given them all the information, but they've been doing it long enough at this point that I think it's safe to assume that they've made a reasonably informed decision regarding whether they want to keep doing that. The fact that Harry was followed? Well, it would have been helpful if he'd shared more information about that, but given that he was barely conscious and hardly capable of stringing two words together, I don't see how he could have managed it. Skinwalkers in particular? Well, talking about them makes them stronger, plus they seem fairly obscure, and Harry had no reason to expect that anyone he knew would ever run into them, so I think that falls under the category of "can't be reasonably foreseen."

It isn't that they might not die but rather that they didn't fully understand the risks.

This might be true. If they didn't know much about any high-level enemy, then they couldn't have understood the risks. But I had always thought they'd gotten a perfunctory briefing about "there's lots of things way more dangerous than you, and you just have to stay out of their way if possible" before the big battle in Summer Knight--I may be wrong, though.

And this is true in all the early books, with Kim Delaney and Susan.  Both were foolish, but it's one thing to be foolish and another to be ignorant and foolish.

Nope. The risks were the thing Harry was extremely clear about in both these cases. It was the other details he wasn't sharing.

[morriswalters]

I made a simple declarative statement.  Guilt has nothing to do with it.  Harry sought refuge, by doing so he caused Kirby to be killed.  Pure cause and effect. 

[nadia.skylark]

I made a simple declarative statement.  Guilt has nothing to do with it.  Harry sought refuge, by doing so he caused Kirby to be killed.  Pure cause and effect.

Oh, is that what you were saying? Sorry, I misunderstood. I'd thought you were talking about Harry not giving the Alphas information on the supernatural world, since Harry not sharing information is the topic of the thread.

[huangjimmy108]

Here is the conversation in Fool Moon, paperback page -5 6...

Kim has just asked Harry several questions behind the theory of holding circles and how they work, she has drawn a picture of it.  He answers her about the first two rings,  then she asks about using a third...  He asks her if she copied it right..
Let's back up to the first page...  He is speaking of a full moon, then what Kim has shown him..
He goes on to warn her not to mess with it, even the knowledge is dangerous.  Page 2 she totally lies to him...
Page 3 Harry asks her again....
He answers some of her questions and she eagerly takes notes until we get to the third inner circle..
Harry realizes there is something fishy a foot...
pages 5-6

Harry stops giving her straight answers to her further questions and continues to warn her... She insists that she is strong enough to activate such a circle... He answers page 6 

He goes on to tell her even if she did, he'd still warn her against it because if she made a mistake, it could hurt a lot of people... Then she gets pissed and stalks off...  Then on page 8

Harry adds talking to himself now...
1]  Kim never told Harry the truth..
2] That it was for a Loop never entered his mind, until he talked to Bob Harry had doubts that they
even existed
3] He thought he was helping her keep her head by not giving her anymore information, just knowing it was dangerous...
4] He had no idea that she was going to try and attempt it even without all the information she needed...  He really thought she had more sense...

Harry blames himself, but honestly if she wasn't willing to tell him the truth, what else could he have done but what he did do?
Mr Death
See above, he did question her closely and she blew him off, and out and out lied to him... Consider how different it could have turned out,  if she had told him the truth about the Loop and what had happened... If I know our Harry, he would have  jumped up without finishing his steak and insisted that he be taken to the subject that so badly needed containing and do the circle himself..  However given those determined that the Loop get out, it still might not have been enough..

Now you understand why the white council is so intolerant. You mess with something above your pay grade, and they come down at you like a ton of bricks, your reasons and excuses be damm. And Harry is officially a wizard of the white council.

He should had taken more proactive action. The only excuse Harry has to explain this mistake is youth and inexperience. If it is Morgan, Kim would have been interrogated at sword point.

[morriswalters]

You say this.

Harry feels guilty for just about everything bad that happens to the people around him, regardless of whether he's actually at fault. Given this, Harry's guilt does not appear to be an accurate indicator of whether or not Harry's actually responsible for something.

I never said anything about guilt.  I said Harry was responsible for Kirby dying.  This is pure cause and effect.  The original response contained Billy's statement to Harry and as such can't be clarified.  This is precisely what Billy is telling Harry.  Harry, you're not giving me enough information to do what it is I do.  Which is to assess the risk to his pack.

@Mira

They train soldiers so that they pay attention to orders without thinking and practice their responses to the situations that they expect to see in the field.  What they try not to do is let inexperienced people into situations that could kill them with out the knowledge they need to stay alive.  Run through your mind about the type of things Jim has Harry do to Molly that runs along this vain when he acquires Molly as an apprentice.  If he was going to bring Kim or Susan into his realm, he incurred an obligation to give them them that knowledge. 

[huangjimmy108]

I'll go book by book to jog my memory.

1. The second Sells/Beckitt victim, the prostitute... Jenny? The one he meets at the airport. She's the only one Harry may have been able to intervene for, and even then, he pulls a classic sitcom mistake and schedules two dates at the same time. So he was in the process of attempting to help her when the storm broke and she got a bad case of heart...explosion. Maybe, if he had told her that her heart was in danger of exploding out of her chest, she may have taken it more seriously and come to him earlier for help. But I chalk it up to a case of missed opportunity rather than withholding information.
2. Kim. I can go either way on this one. It's not really Harry's fault because he was deceived.
3. Susan. Nope, Susan made her own bed. She picked up the Idiot Ball and ran with it. What she did was way more dangerous than even what war correspondents do when they report from the field; it's very rare that you see a reporter go to an ISIS party to chase down a story about a day in the life of a terrorist.
4. Summer Knight... nothing comes to mind. The only people involved are either clued in, or, in Murphy's case, get clued in.
5. Death Masks... nothing on this one. The only death I can recall is Shiro, and he knew more than Harry (including that he was going to die).
6. Blood Rites... there's an argument to be made about the actresses on set. I think Harry could have outright told the producer (Genosa? I can't remember) that there WAS a curse, but I think he kept it vaguer than necessary. But I can go either way on this one.
7. Dead Beat... he clues Butters in pretty well. No, I don't think there's anyone he kept anything from (unless you count Luccio?) who got hurt because of it.
8. Proven Guilty. This time, it happened to Harry. If Molly had gone to him with what she knew about her magic, Proven Guilty pretty much doesn't happen. Ditto Thomas shadowing Harry all over town instead of being up front with him.
9. White Night. Nothing comes to mind. Harry's pretty up front with the Ordo. The only thing he held back at first was Beckitt's criminal past, and that didn't affect much.
10. Small Favor. Again, it was done to Harry with his blasting rod (which I've always thought was an unnecessarily macho term for "wand.") Harry lays out his cards pretty openly. Michael's the one who got hurt, but not because Harry didn't say "Hey, watch out for Ak-47s."
11. Turn Coat. Nope. Nada.
12. Changes. Again, this happened TO Harry. If Susan had told him they'd had a daughter, Harry would've made it his business to incinerate anyone who looked at her the wrong way. There's an argument to be made that he shouldn't have brought Molly along (and we all saw the consequences there). And Susan... Harry manipulated her at the altar. He telepathically told Susan that Martin's knife couldn't hurt her because of her Fae armor, but knew it was a lie (since the blade was steel). He convinced her to kill Martin, knowing she'd drain him and turn, all so he could kill the Red Court.
13. Ghost Story. Nothing comes to mind.
14. Cold Days. Molly, maybe? Not really, though. He doesn't withhold much of anything from her.
15. Skin Game. The only one who's hurt is Murphy, and she went in with open eyes.

So I think there are only a few across the whole series. Maybe there are some examples in the short stories, but I don't recall most of them in great detail.

The point is Susan should have known about the supernatural at all. This is all started when Harry advertise himself as a wizard in the yellow pages. He open the Pandora's box right there. There is a reason why the white council looks poorly about Harry in this matter. It may look innocent at the start, but Harry's advertisement draws amateurs into the the game of supernaturals. All because Harry can't maintain secrecy at the start and fail to fully clued in people when secrecy fails.

[huangjimmy108]

Um, he warned both Kim and Susan as best he could, let's not forget some information Harry isn't at liberty to share...  Let's be fair here,  did Kim tell Harry why she really wanted the plans?  No...  When Harry mentioned that such a circle was only used to contain the likes of archangels and demigods, did she say who or what she was trying to contain?  NO!  Her answer was sheer stupidity about Harry thinking she isn't strong enough to build such a circle.. Even if Harry had given her ALL the information it is doubtful that she could have pulled it off under pressure...

Susan, what more could Harry have told her?   All she cared about was getting a story so she blew off Harry's warnings about the party and who was there, hell he didn't want to go it was so dangerous...  After witnessing the run in with the Loop, and the Frog Demon in Storm Front you'd think she'd trust Harry's word when he says something is just too dangerous for mere vanilla mortals to come up against... The smart thing would have been to trust his word and use common sense... When someone tells you not to touch the red hot stove, don't touch it or you might get badly burned...  She was, and Kim paid with her life..   Both had pretty informed choices to make and they made them, they chose to disregard Harry's warnings.  It's like a mine field with signs that say, "DO NOT GO INTO THE MINE FIELD, DANGER!!!!"  You know mines can kill, you know they can rip off arms and legs etc.... You've been told by an explosives expert that these are very powerful mines easily triggered and they can reduce you to a red stain in the dirt...   But you've never seen this yourself, and though this person is an expert, he has to be over protective, just how dangerous can they really be?  You make your informed choice and take a walk in the marked field... You may get lucky and not trip anything, does that make the warnings wrong?  Or you step on one and are reduced to red goo...  You made an informed choice, what more information could the explosive expert have given you to keep you out of that damn field?

They don't know about the white council. They don't know that supernaturals has factions as powerful as nations and maybe even more. They don't know that Harry himself is a relatively small fry when the bigger picture is at play. They see the pond but they don't know how deep it is, and Harry is the one who introduce them to the pond.

[Mira]

He should had taken more proactive action. The only excuse Harry has to explain this mistake is youth and inexperience. If it is Morgan, Kim would have been interrogated at sword point.

About what?  Harry wasn't a Warden at that time, and just asking about the ring isn't forbidden..  He asks her again and again why she wants the information, she answers in the hypothetical...  When he realizes that she is trying to lead him into forbidden classified information open only to certified wizards only to be used in the most special of cases he shuts down the information..  He has no authority to either hold her or assault her to find out why she wants the information.  Up until that point he had no clue that there was a Loop loose upon the world that she was trying to contain...  If it is anyone's fault it is Kim's for thinking just because she can ride a bicycle she fly a jet without any training..  It is about her ego her response to Harry's warnings is, you think I am not strong enough to make one. She is pissed because Harry is roughly her age and he is a full wizard where as she isn't even an apprentice... That says to me she thinks she has something to prove, not that she is really concerned about anyone's safety...  It's her decision to go back and try to make the circle without all the information she needs, and she gets herself killed..  She also has some idea if not fully aware of what she is trying to contain when Harry warns her about the dangers..  Yet she elects to say nothing to him...  She doesn't want any realhelp from him, no, she is out to prove something that was beyond her and it got her killed...   There is no proactive against that...

[nadia.skylark]

Now you understand why the white council is so intolerant. You mess with something above your pay grade, and they come down at you like a ton of bricks, your reasons and excuses be damm. And Harry is officially a wizard of the white council.

He should had taken more proactive action. The only excuse Harry has to explain this mistake is youth and inexperience. If it is Morgan, Kim would have been interrogated at sword point.

What proactive action would you have him take? Remember, he's not a Warden--he has no authority to actually do anything to her.

I never said anything about guilt.  I said Harry was responsible for Kirby dying.  This is pure cause and effect.

1) You said that Harry "owns it." I assumed you meant that Harry feels guilty/responsible for what happened.

2) No, the Skinwalker was responsible for Kirby dying. It was the one who chose to take the job against Harry, to follow Harry, and to kill Kirby. Harry gave it the opportunity to kill Kirby by going to Will's house, but Harry is not responsible for Kirby's death any more than Will is for calling him for help.

The point is Susan should have known about the supernatural at all. This is all started when Harry advertise himself as a wizard in the yellow pages. He open the Pandora's box right there. There is a reason why the white council looks poorly about Harry in this matter.

There's no evidence of that. I had always believed that both Susan and Kim found Harry because they already believed in the supernatural.

It may look innocent at the start, but Harry's advertisement draws amateurs into the the game of supernaturals. All because Harry can't maintain secrecy at the start and fail to fully clued in people when secrecy fails.

Nope. Susan was already a paranormal reporter when she met Harry, and Kim met the Loup Garou (I forget his name) independently of Harry. None of that is on him.

They don't know about the white council. They don't know that supernaturals has factions as powerful as nations and maybe even more.

And they don't need to to avoid the dangers they get into.

They don't know that Harry himself is a relatively small fry when the bigger picture is at play.

In both cases, Harry explicitly warns them that he's not sure he can handle the issue, actually.

They see the pond but they don't know how deep it is, and Harry is the one who introduce them to the pond.

See above regarding: Nope.

About what?  Harry wasn't a Warden at that time, and just asking about the ring isn't forbidden..  He asks her again and again why she wants the information, she answers in the hypothetical...  When he realizes that she is trying to lead him into forbidden classified information open only to certified wizards only to be used in the most special of cases he shuts down the information..  He has no authority to either hold her or assault her to find out why she wants the information.  Up until that point he had no clue that there was a Loop loose upon the world that she was trying to contain...  If it is anyone's fault it is Kim's for thinking just because she can ride a bicycle she fly a jet without any training..  It is about her ego her response to Harry's warnings is, you think I am not strong enough to make one. She is pissed because Harry is roughly her age and he is a full wizard where as she isn't even an apprentice... That says to me she thinks she has something to prove, not that she is really concerned about anyone's safety...  It's her decision to go back and try to make the circle without all the information she needs, and she gets herself killed..  She also has some idea if not fully aware of what she is trying to contain when Harry warns her about the dangers..  Yet she elects to say nothing to him...  She doesn't want any realhelp from him, no, she is out to prove something that was beyond her and it got her killed...   There is no proactive against that...

This.

[Mira]

They train soldiers so that they pay attention to orders without thinking and practice their responses to the situations that they expect to see in the field.  What they try not to do is let inexperienced people into situations that could kill them with out the knowledge they need to stay alive.  Run through your mind about the type of things Jim has Harry do to Molly that runs along this vain when he acquires Molly as an apprentice.  If he was going to bring Kim or Susan into his realm, he incurred an obligation to give them them that knowledge. 

He didn't bring either one of them into his realm, they volunteered.. He took neither on as an apprentice... Susan was a reporter, in the beginning she wanted to use Harry to get the story...
She worked for a supernatural rag, she wanted to use Harry to gain her own fame... Yeah, she fell in love with him along the road, but don't pretend that she didn't blind herself to the fact that Harry had"danger Will Robinson" written all over him... She chose to ignore it at her own peril...

The point is Susan should have known about the supernatural at all. This is all started when Harry advertise himself as a wizard in the yellow pages. He open the Pandora's box right there. There is a reason why the white council looks poorly about Harry in this matter. It may look innocent at the start, but Harry's advertisement draws amateurs into the the game of supernaturals. All because Harry can't maintain secrecy at the start and fail to fully clued in people when secrecy fails.

The amateurs are in it any way,  the young warlocks that lose their heads annually are not Harry's fault..   Victor got there all on his own, not because of some two line ad in the Yellow Pages, he never sought the help from a professional...

They train soldiers so that they pay attention to orders without thinking and practice their responses to the situations that they expect to see in the field.  What they try not to do is let inexperienced people into situations that could kill them with out the knowledge they need to stay alive.  Run through your mind about the type of things Jim has Harry do to Molly that runs along this vain when he acquires Molly as an apprentice.  If he was going to bring Kim or Susan into his realm, he incurred an obligation to give them them that knowledge. 

Again he never lead either woman....  He warned Kim that she had neither the knowledge nor the training to build that circle... Given the time constraint, full moon in the next day or two, it is doubtful he could have given her either enough knowledge or training to build one if he knew what she really wanted the knowledge for...  It isn't reasonable to think he could prepare her when she refused to give him the information about what she was really up to..

What training could he possibly have given Susan to keep her safe at the party?   Given her hunger for the story, the more information he could give her about the guests would only fuel her desire more to be there...  She stole the fricken invitation, crashed the party, is Harry responsible for that? 

[huangjimmy108]

About what?  Harry wasn't a Warden at that time, and just asking about the ring isn't forbidden..  He asks her again and again why she wants the information, she answers in the hypothetical...  When he realizes that she is trying to lead him into forbidden classified information open only to certified wizards only to be used in the most special of cases he shuts down the information..  He has no authority to either hold her or assault her to find out why she wants the information.  Up until that point he had no clue that there was a Loop loose upon the world that she was trying to contain...  If it is anyone's fault it is Kim's for thinking just because she can ride a bicycle she fly a jet without any training..  It is about her ego her response to Harry's warnings is, you think I am not strong enough to make one. She is pissed because Harry is roughly her age and he is a full wizard where as she isn't even an apprentice... That says to me she thinks she has something to prove, not that she is really concerned about anyone's safety...  It's her decision to go back and try to make the circle without all the information she needs, and she gets herself killed..  She also has some idea if not fully aware of what she is trying to contain when Harry warns her about the dangers..  Yet she elects to say nothing to him...  She doesn't want any realhelp from him, no, she is out to prove something that was beyond her and it got her killed...   There is no proactive against that...

He is not a warden, but he is a full fledge member of the white council. At the least, he should have reported to the council that there is suspicious activities in Chicago. Someone is playing with a circle use to capture Archangels, that is a big red alert right there. I am sure if it is book 12 Harry facing similar situations, he'll dig 6 feet into the ground to find out.

Imagine a traffic police officer. Someone ask this officer how to produce narcotics, in deatail and it involve highly technical stuff. The officer recognize the problem and tried to persuade the person, but he did not try to investigate further. He also did not consult with his superior officers about the matter. In the end the officer found out that the person died of drug overdose and it involve a drug cartel too.

What do you think about this traffic officer?