Assorted questions

[Sanctaphrax]

Most of that could probably just be a maneuver to put an Aspect on yourself. No need to get fancy.

[nadia.skylark]

So, I've recently noticed that Inhuman Speed in the RPG doesn't actually line up with either what we've seen from people who have the power in the books or with real-world physics. So this is my (quite possibly bad) attempt to fix it via splitting the power up into two different powers:

Inhuman Speed [-2]
Improved Initiative: Your Alertness is at +1 for the purpose of determining initiative.
Athletic Ability: All of your athletics checks not to do with reacting quickly to outside stimuli are made at +1 (for example, you get a +1 bonus when climbing a wall, but not when balancing on a log). This includes dodging only when you also move at least one zone. Increase this bonus to +2 when sprinting.
Improved Striking: It's easier to hit someone, and you do more damage, when you are moving fast. As such, you get a +1 bonus to fists and weapons. When using thrown weapons, however, you do not get a +1 bonus, but instead increase the weapons value by 1.
Casual Movement: as in YS
Almost Too Fast To See: as in YS

Inhuman Reflexes [-2]
Improved Initiative: Your Alertness is at +4 for the purpose of determining initiative.
Athletic Ability: All of your athletics checks to do with reacting quickly to outside stimuli are made at +1 (for example, you get a +1 bonus for catching yourself if you fall out of a tree, but not when climbing the tree in the first place). This includes dodging. Increase this bonus to +2 when making a full defense.
Improved Aiming: Your quick reflexes make it easier for you to aim quickly. Gain a +1 when shooting guns or throwing weapons. This doesn't help with sniper stuff.
Ambush Reaction: When being ambushed, your quick reflexes allow you to react better than most people. Instead of defending at Mediocre, you can defend at half your skill level (rounded down).
Obstacle Avoidance: Difficulty factors for moving due to obstacles in the terrain (for example, trees or broken pavement) are reduced by two.

What do people think?

[Sanctaphrax]

To be honest, I don't see the point. Speed powers fit the books pretty nicely, I think.

[nadia.skylark]

The issue I have is twofold: first, that supernatural beings like Thomas and Kincaid are supposed to be able to aim without trying particularly hard--Harry identifies Kincaid as supernatural because he doesn't miss, and Thomas is specifically called out as never having to practice in order to shoot well; second, that physics says that swinging a weapon faster should make it do more damage if it hits, and should also make it harder to dodge. Neither of these things appears to be represented in the game.

[narphoenix]

The issue I have is twofold: first, that supernatural beings like Thomas and Kincaid are supposed to be able to aim without trying particularly hard--Harry identifies Kincaid as supernatural because he doesn't miss, and Thomas is specifically called out as never having to practice in order to shoot well; second, that physics says that swinging a weapon faster should make it do more damage if it hits, and should also make it harder to dodge. Neither of these things appears to be represented in the game.

It probably is just represented as giving them a high Guns score, maybe with some invoking occasionally when a shot is important. If it’s really important, a stunt might be called for, but not a separate power. I actually have a concept for a character who is a telekinetic (as the telekinesis power on the wiki) and took a stunt to apply strength bonuses to their weapon shooting.

[Mr. Death]

I, too, don't see the need or the point in effectively doubling the price of Inhuman Speed.

For one, I think it's an unwarranted assumption that those aspects of Thomas and Kincaid are specifically attributed to the speed power.

For another, removing the bonus from dodging makes the power more or less useless, or at least, not worth -2 refresh, since in all the games I've played, the vast majority of athletics checks go toward dodging.

And Thomas and most supernatural creatures already have at least one strength power, which does the legwork for the damage bonuses anyway.

[nadia.skylark]

Resurrecting this thread because I've come up with yet another random question:

What would be an interesting result of a White Court Virgin sleeping with someone who is in true love with them, but whom they don't feel the same about?

I've decided that if a WCVirgin is in love with the person they sleep with, but that person doesn't feel the same, then the person still dies but the WCVirgin's demon is killed. I had considered using the reverse of that (the person lives, but the WCVirgin becomes a WCVampire) for if the person is in love with the WCVirgin but not the reverse--but that doesn't feel traumatic enough, so I'm looking for suggestions.

Also, to resurrect a couple of old points that I'm still looking for answers about:
Has anyone used the Ordo Torca in their game, and how did that go?
And is there anything interesting and unique about praying mantis theriothropes?

[g33k]

What would be an interesting result of a White Court Virgin sleeping with someone who is in true love with them, but whom they don't feel the same about?

I've decided that if a WCVirgin is in love with the person they sleep with, but that person doesn't feel the same, then the person still dies but the WCVirgin's demon is killed. I had considered using the reverse of that (the person lives, but the WCVirgin becomes a WCVampire) for if the person is in love with the WCVirgin but not the reverse--but that doesn't feel traumatic enough, so I'm looking for suggestions.
 

Hmmm.

I think Jim Butcher is rather a romantic.  I recall a fair number of topics where he stresses the "mutuality" factor, including that parent/child love doesn't offer protection vs. the Raith's because it the child is so dependent, the parent so protective.

I think it's the WCV's own love for their partner -- that very first time, while still a wcV -- that insulates them from being burned; but maybe it's the actual mutuality; I could see that argument too!

Maybe the WCV just gets burned, and has to stop, like most other cases.  That's certainly a traumatic and tragic experience...

I don't think the canon speaks to the specific, so make up the answer you like best!

And is there anything interesting and unique about praying mantis theriothropes?

I don't think they exist, as a class.  Imariel's battle-form is unique to that Fallen, just like Ursiel's is, etc.

So far as I know, the DF offers no theriomorphs who aren't mammals.  The Naagloshii can do more, but that's a (very) special case!  There was a Naga, but that's a Naga, not a human shapeshifter.

I think invertebrates are right off the table, except at extreme power levels (like, probably not even the Merlin is strong enough).

But again -- your game, do it if you think it's more fun.

 

[nadia.skylark]

Maybe the WCV just gets burned, and has to stop, like most other cases.  That's certainly a traumatic and tragic experience...

That might work. It has the right feel to it, but I'm looking for something with longer-lasting consequences, since the first feeding is so significant. Maybe the hunger demon gets burned directly instead of the person? But I'm not sure how to represent that...

I don't think they exist, as a class.  Imariel's battle-form is unique to that Fallen, just like Ursiel's is, etc.

So far as I know, the DF offers no theriomorphs who aren't mammals.  The Naagloshii can do more, but that's a (very) special case!  There was a Naga, but that's a Naga, not a human shapeshifter.

I meant something like lycanthropes are, where they have a spirit inside them but don't transform. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

And they don't exist in canon, but I'm trying to find something interesting about one because I'm having my wizard apprentice deal with one (in a fanfic, not in a game, but I'm using game mechanics to keep track of what my characters can and can't do) and I need to give it something besides speed powers or it will take out my wizard apprentice way too easily (she doesn't know combat evocation yet, and isn't supposed to learn it for a while, so I'm trying to avoid her getting into too many direct fights). But the praying mantis needs some combat stuff (and also can't have guns, because this encounter is the first time she uses her shield spell in combat, so she's not going to be fast or good enough to block gunfire). Strength powers don't feel quite right, though, so I'm looking for something that has a "praying mantis"-like feel to it.

[Ghostfreak]

How would you build the spear of longinus? The artifact that pierced christs side and was bathed in its blood.

[g33k]

I meant something like lycanthropes are, where they have a spirit inside them but don't transform. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

... and I need to give it something besides speed powers or it will take out my wizard apprentice way too easily (she doesn't know combat evocation yet, and isn't supposed to learn it for a while, so I'm trying to avoid her getting into too many direct fights). But the praying mantis needs some combat stuff (and also can't have guns, because this encounter is the first time she uses her shield spell in combat, so she's not going to be fast or good enough to block gunfire). Strength powers don't feel quite right, though, so I'm looking for something that has a "praying mantis"-like feel to it.

So, not physical shapeshifting, but just the human body empowered by a "mantis-spirit"?

Hmm.  You're right, I didn't understand!  Thanks for clarifying this.

Further thoughts, then...

IIRC, those spirits don't actually grant "powers" in any supernatural manner, just a "limits off" physicality, "hysterical strength" or the like.  And, of course, the mind-set of the spirit.

The real-life mantis is a stalk-and-strike ambush hunter, using a strike-and-hold immobilization.  It usually then begins feeding... often without even bothering to kill the prey!  A wizard could have a unique advantage vs. such a mantis-spirit, in that they don't need to move to take effective action, "immobilized" but still effective!

I'm also thinking of "mantis-style" kung fu; maybe a practitioner of the martial art got into some weird occult state, and got possessed, or maybe that's just how a mantis-spirit inhabits a body -- maybe it's even the Dresdenverse origin of Mantis Kung Fu!

[nadia.skylark]

I'm also thinking of "mantis-style" kung fu; maybe a practitioner of the martial art got into some weird occult state, and got possessed, or maybe that's just how a mantis-spirit inhabits a body -- maybe it's even the Dresdenverse origin of Mantis Kung Fu!

This is an awesome idea! Thanks.

How would you build the spear of longinus? The artifact that pierced christs side and was bathed in its blood.

Well, the spear of Longinus is supposed to ensure victory for the one who has it. So, maybe a modified Righteousness where you define a single victory condition instead of a "Divinely-inspired purpose" and also apply that instead of the "when a friend, ally, or innocent victim is taken out etc" for the desperate hour portion (so it reads: "any time you are required to take a severe or extreme consequence to avoid being taken out, or something happens to directly and substantially threaten your ability to meet your stated victory condition..." (ex if your stated victory condition is "kill or capture all the vampires" and one of them runs away)).

Also, it should probably have True Aim.

You could also justify giving it "All creatures are equal before god" on the basis that if it can hurt Jesus, it should be able to hurt anyone, but that might make it to similar to the Swords of the Cross.

[g33k]

... You could also justify giving it "All creatures are equal before god" on the basis that if it can hurt Jesus, it should be able to hurt anyone, but that might make it to similar to the Swords of the Cross.

Good call... I agree that it's too much like the Swords that way!

Also, it ignores the fact that Jesus was SUPPOSED to suffer and die there:  rather than some sort of "OMG it can even hurt God" feature, there's some sort of Holy Sacrifice thing going on.

There should be no direct benefit to the wielder, though maybe something for allies in the scene?  Dunno... it feels like any sort of "tactical advantage" element is off-theme here...
 

[nadia.skylark]

Also, it ignores the fact that Jesus was SUPPOSED to suffer and die there:  rather than some sort of "OMG it can even hurt God" feature, there's some sort of Holy Sacrifice thing going on.

There should be no direct benefit to the wielder, though maybe something for allies in the scene?  Dunno... it feels like any sort of "tactical advantage" element is off-theme here...

Maybe something like if the wielder uses the spear to cut themselves and bleeds on someone, any current injuries that person has heal as if they have inhuman recovery? Or something like if the person wielding the spear has to take a consequence in a fight, all their friends, allies, and any innocents involved get armor:1 for the rest of the scene?

[g33k]

Maybe something like if the wielder uses the spear to cut themselves and bleeds on someone, any current injuries that person has heal as if they have inhuman recovery? Or something like if the person wielding the spear has to take a consequence in a fight, all their friends, allies, and any innocents involved get armor:1 for the rest of the scene?

Jesus died for your sins.  The sacrifice needs to be bigger than any one person's benefit (not bigger than the total/aggregate benefit!); but as I said, any tactical advantages seem off-theme.

How about if all of the friends/family/allies/etc of everyone fighting on the side of the Longinus-wielder (that is to say, everyone NOT in the scene but connected to anyone who IS in the scene) get an immediate Recovery:  the most-severe Consequence moves one step less-severe, including Mild consequences just going away.  No tactical advantage in-scene, but a pretty vast & sweeping benefit (potentially to hundreds of people) out-of-scene.  People at death's door become merely "very ill," etc.