Earth magic responsible for weapons skill?

[nadia.skylark]

So in Paranet Papers, it says that Morgan's earth magic is partially responsible for his sword skill, but I'm not sure how to represent that mechanically.

Should it be something like a stunt that allows him to use swords with discipline or conviction?

Something that adds his refinement bonuses for earth magic onto his weapons skill?

Maybe something like a "channeling" version of Easy Evocations, where for 1 refresh he can make earth evocation attacks without stress, only instead of the weapons value being the evocation strength, it's the weapons value of the sword?

Or something else entirely?

[Sanctaphrax]

Why would you want to represent it mechanically?

It works fine as a small backstory detail. Could maybe include it in an Aspect or something, but I don't really see any need to.

[nadia.skylark]

Mostly because I was reading your optimization thread and trying to figure out how to stat Morgan in such a way that was more optimized.

[Sanctaphrax]

Ah. Yeah, that is a bit tricky. A stunt letting him make sword attacks with a casting skill might help.

Of course, this is only a problem for characters with skill pyramids. As an NPC, he doesn't need to care about any of this optimization stuff.

[nadia.skylark]

Ah. Yeah, that is a bit tricky. A stunt letting him make sword attacks with a casting skill might help.

Do you think that this would work?

[-1] Advanced Earth Magic: Your understanding of earth magic is such that you can use it reflexively to enhance your mundane attacks. As such, you can cast earth magic evocations without taking stress (this does not help you against backlash). These substitute for/resemble combat actions that would normally use your fists/weapons (pick one) skill. However, you can't add any special effects like duration to these evocations, and the weapons value is not equal to the evocation's strength, but rather to the weapons value of the weapon (or your fist/feet/whatever) that you are using.

(On a related note, would you consider a steel-toed boot to qualify as weapon:1?)

[Sanctaphrax]

I'd allow a boot as weapon 1.

Power looks questionable to me. Evocation accuracy can very easily go to Legendary and beyond, so stressless evocation attacks are dangerous territory.

[nadia.skylark]

Power looks questionable to me. Evocation accuracy can very easily go to Legendary and beyond, so stressless evocation attacks are dangerous territory.

It's almost identical to the "easy evocations" power you said was fine on an earlier thread. The only difference is that it's restricted to earth magic (which is why it's -1 instead on -2) and you can add the weapons value of a sword or whatever (which, since you can already make regular attacks with your weapon:whatever sword, I didn't think was a big deal).

[Sanctaphrax]

I think being able to add the weapon rating of a sword is a big deal. +3 stress is 1.5 Refresh worth of stuff. And elements are broad enough that being limited to one usually isn't a major problem.

But hey, maybe I'm being overcautious.

[nadia.skylark]

I think being able to add the weapon rating of a sword is a big deal. +3 stress is 1.5 Refresh worth of stuff.

Yes, but it's +3 stress you can inflict anyway. You've already got the weapon; this just lets you use your spellcasting skills to wield it rather than your weapons skill.

And elements are broad enough that being limited to one usually isn't a major problem.

I can up the cost to -2 if you think that would work better. I was just going off the refresh cost difference between channeling and evocation.

[Sanctaphrax]

Yes, but it's +3 stress you can inflict anyway. You've already got the weapon; this just lets you use your spellcasting skills to wield it rather than your weapons skill.

Except you can't inflict that stress anyway, because you can't use that weapon with the attacks you're making.

I can up the cost to -2 if you think that would work better. I was just going off the refresh cost difference between channeling and evocation.

Evocation's biggest benefit isn't so much the extra elements as it is the specializations.

[nadia.skylark]

Except you can't inflict that stress anyway, because you can't use that weapon with the attacks you're making.

This is exactly the same as the Armed Arts stunt--it gives you the ability to use weapons with a different skill.

Evocation's biggest benefit isn't so much the extra elements as it is the specializations.

That makes sense.

[Sanctaphrax]

You have to pay for Armed Arts. And it's still probably the strongest Fists stunt.

[nadia.skylark]

You have to pay for Armed Arts. And it's still probably the strongest Fists stunt.

So the conclusion here is that this power should cost -2 rather than -1.

Edit: Wait a minute, you have to pay for this stunt too. The only difference between this stunt and Armed Arts is that you can use your earth magic power bonuses--and you had to pay for those via refinements. This stunt is basically a straight up skill substitution. It is essentially either "use conviction + earth power bonuses instead of fists" or "use conviction + earth power bonuses instead of weapons."

[Mr. Death]

So the conclusion here is that this power should cost -2 rather than -1.

Edit: Wait a minute, you have to pay for this stunt too. The only difference between this stunt and Armed Arts is that you can use your earth magic power bonuses--and you had to pay for those via refinements. This stunt is basically a straight up skill substitution. It is essentially either "use conviction + earth power bonuses instead of fists" or "use conviction + earth power bonuses instead of weapons."

Without spending a single point on Refinement, a character with Evocation can have a +8 to attack with a given element -- 5 base Discipline, +1 for specialization, +2 for a focus. And that's if he's only using the Focus Slots he got with Evocation; if we're talking a full wizard, that could bump his attack roll to a 10 base.

At that point it hardly matters what the weapon rating is, since most monsters' dodge skills top out at 3.

This isn't a mere skill substitution. It's allowing for high-powered, free attacks that would not be possible otherwise.

[Sanctaphrax]

Discipline and control, not Conviction and power.

Anyway, it's probably okay at 2 Refresh. But as Mr. Death says, those control bonuses are a big deal.