Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?

[nadia.skylark]

There have been a lot of debates and theories about who fixed Little Chicago, but I haven't seen any debate about why they did it--everyone seems to assume that the point is to save Harry.

But what if it isn't? What if, instead, they fixed it because they needed to use it? We have WoJ that Harry is first-rate when it comes to making magical artifacts, even compared to wizards with far more experience. Furthermore, Little Chicago took an enormous amount of time to put together, as well as a fair amount of resources. If someone needed to use something like it just once, as opposed to on a regular basis, it would make more sense to fix Harry's and just use that, rather than expend the time and effort to build their own.

[morriswalters]

Use it for what?  It's rather specific to Harry's turf.  It was also fixed before first use.

[nadia.skylark]

Use it for what?  It's rather specific to Harry's turf.

It's a voodoo doll of Chicago. If someone needed to find something in Chicago, or affect all of Chicago with a spell, or spy on people in Chicago who were otherwise inaccessible, then Little Chicago would be a great tool to have. Beyond that, I'm not sure why they'd want to use it--the motivation is likely too specific to the user to generalize. I've lost track of who people think fixed it, but if you give me a list (excluding time traveling Harry, because at least half his motivation is definitely going to be not letting his younger self blow up regardless of whether he needs to use Little Chicago himself), I can try to come up with more specific motivations tailored to each person.

I agree that it's specific to Harry's turf--and it is for this exact reason that someone would just use Harry's rather than make there own. It's way too much work to create something like this for a one-time use, but correcting a minor (albeit deadly) glitch in the spellwork is a lot quicker and more simple.

The real problem with this theory is "how did whoever know about it in order to decide to use it?" but that's a problem regardless of whether they're fixing it for Harry's benefit or their own.

[KurtinStGeorge]

The obvious answer is time traveling Harry not only fixed it, he used LC to track someone or something he came back in time to stop.  Why do one job when TT Harry could do two at the same time?  TT Harry just has to get back early enough to get something he can use for tracking purposes, then go to his old home, fix LC in order to use it and then order Bob to keep quiet about the visit. 

[nadia.skylark]

The obvious answer is time traveling Harry not only fixed it, he used LC to track someone or something he came back in time to stop.  Why do one job when TT Harry could do two at the same time?  TT Harry just has to get back early enough to get something he can use for tracking purposes, then go to his old home, fix LC in order to use it and then order Bob to keep quiet about the visit.

Possibly. Unfortunately this reason contradicts my pet theory about how things would have played out if it turns out to be TT!Harry (sorry for confusion over tenses), so I prefer to believe that if this theory is true, then it was someone other than TT!Harry who fixed Little Chicago. No evidence for this, of course.

[morriswalters]

Paradoxageddon occurs. Time traveler Harry knew to fix LC because, how?

[nadia.skylark]

Paradoxageddon occurs. Time traveler Harry knew to fix LC because, how?

The theory I have was actually designed to fix this problem.

This issue with TT!Harry fixing Little Chicago is that in the first iteration, there was no one to fix it and he should have died. However, what happened in my theory is that when Little Chicago blew up, Lasciel's shadow convinced Harry to take up the coin mid-explosion using some of the same arguments that subconscious!Harry used in Dead Beat, and Lasciel shielded him from the blast. Together, Harry and Lasciel managed to find and save Molly, but eventually Harry got manipulated by Lasciel into being an awful person like all of the other Denarians. Harry eventually repented, gave up Lasciel's coin, and tried to fix the damage he'd done. However, it was so extensive that he felt that no amount of fixing would be enough, so he went back in time in order to prevent himself from taking up Lasciel's coin by fixing Little Chicago and stopping it from blowing up in the first place.

[Snark Knight]

But what if it isn't? What if, instead, they fixed it because they needed to use it? We have WoJ that Harry is first-rate when it comes to making magical artifacts, even compared to wizards with far more experience. Furthermore, Little Chicago took an enormous amount of time to put together, as well as a fair amount of resources. If someone needed to use something like it just once, as opposed to on a regular basis, it would make more sense to fix Harry's and just use that, rather than expend the time and effort to build their own.

Harry and Bob initially missed the flaw, though, so whoever fixed it had to have had foreknowledge that Harry was about to blow himself up and wanted to prevent that, and / or been even better with subtle artifact creation.

Using Little Chicago could fit as a motivation for Mab to fix it, though. She had means to get into the apartment so long as she behaves as a good guest, and opportunity in the form of abundant skill to notice and repair it. The main argument against her was always motive - that if she knew of the flaw, she wouldn't just benevolently fix it. Her usual nature would be to hit Harry up to trade another favour(s) for 'information which will soon save your life'. But if she found it convenient to use Harry's gear for some reason, fixing the flaw could be rationalized as her way of paying to use LC, while also preventing her asset from accidentally depreciating himself.

I doubt it's a coincidence that someone else needing to use the spy tool happened at the same time shit was going down for a Nemesis plot. It's a WAG, but if it was Mab was using it, the timeline fits for that being how she found out that Maeve was compromised. Possibly she couldn't be away from Arctis Tor longer than absolutely necessary and found it convenient to capitalize on Harry's groundwork. Or perhaps Maeve's surveillance countermeasures were focused on Winter magic, and a mortal spell was able to get around them.

[nadia.skylark]

Harry and Bob initially missed the flaw, though, so whoever fixed it had to have had foreknowledge that Harry was about to blow himself up and wanted to prevent that, and / or been even better with subtle artifact creation.

Or it could have just needed someone with fresh eyes to look at it. That's one of the reasons why I like to get someone to read over essays before I turn them in--I'm perfectly good at spelling, but if I've been working on the essay for a week and know exactly what it's supposed to say, I end up missing typos.

Using Little Chicago could fit as a motivation for Mab to fix it, though. She had means to get into the apartment so long as she behaves as a good guest, and opportunity in the form of abundant skill to notice and repair it. The main argument against her was always motive - that if she knew of the flaw, she wouldn't just benevolently fix it. Her usual nature would be to hit Harry up to trade another favour(s) for 'information which will soon save your life'. But if she found it convenient to use Harry's gear for some reason, fixing the flaw could be rationalized as her way of paying to use LC, while also preventing her asset from accidentally depreciating himself.

Definitely. If someone decided that they needed to use Little Chicago themselves, then Mab is definitely the top contender.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Paradoxageddon occurs. Time traveler Harry knew to fix LC because, how?

Because Bob told Harry about the problem at the end of Proven Guilty.  Here's the exact quote from Bob to Harry.

"Oh," he said. "I found something wrong with Little Chicago's design."

I swallowed. "Oh. Wow. Bad?"

"Extremely. We missed a transition coupling in the power flow. The stored energy was all going to the same spot."

Bob may have been following TT Harry's orders to tell himself (his earlier self) about the problem without saying who fixed LC.  This way TT Harry can tell Bob where to look for the problem but not interfere with the timeline.  Before going back in time TT Harry would remember the problem with LC and realize he needed to fix it; or order Bob to fix it, if he was going to use it himself.  Actually, I could see TT Harry thinking he would catch whoever fixed LC before realizing he would be the one who fixed it. 

[nadia.skylark]

Because Bob told Harry about the problem at the end of Proven Guilty.

No, that doesn't work. Because the original Harry would have been blown up by Little Chicago, so he wouldn't be around to come back and fix it.

We can't assume a stable time loop in the Dresdenverse because Odin has said that it is possible to change the past. If the past is changeable, then the "it's going to happen because it's already happened" logic necessary for a stable time loop falls apart.

[morriswalters]

If someone from the future fixes LC it creates a paradox.  Always.  According to Vadderung this causes a split in the timeline.  Whoever goes back can't change their future.  They can only create a new future where Harry doesn't kill himself with LC. 

It's like a murder investigation.  Who has means , motive and opportunity?  Since Harry was keeping LC under wraps before first use, who could have known of it existence in the present?  That list is small.  Maybe Mab and/or the Gatekeeper.  It's never explained implicitly, but Mab has some means of seeing what happens in Chicago.  She reproduces a past event in Chicago, in full animation, in Small Favor. And the Gatekeeper has showed the ability to find Harry wherever he might be.  He does it in Summer Knight and Turncoat.  However the ability to be able to do so removes the need to use LC, since she/they seem to already have a more powerful tool that does the same thing. 

However, Mab might fix LC to fulfill Lea's obligation to protect Harry, since in Proven Guilty she is restrained and as of Dead Beat Mab is filling in.  This WAG depends on the exact nature of Lea's obligation.  However we do know that she kept a garden  in the Never Never to keep enemies from entering Harry's home past the threshold.  This means that Mab had a private doorway into the sub basement.  So this a possibility.  That is means and motives. 

Opportunity.  Anyone monitoring Harry would know when he and Bob were both out of the apartment.  Again this fills the bill for Mab/Gatekeeper.  Bob is not in the basement for most of the events leading up to the raid on Arctis Tor.  So the basement was free from surveillance.  Anyone with the means to enter, could do so without interference.

Since I don't like time travel  I won't discuss it other than to say that anyone in the future possessing Bob, assuming he survived, would have everything they need to fix LC if they could TT.

[Kindler]

It works perfectly if Harry Already Changed the Past and we're on an already-changed timeline. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAlreadyChangedThePast
I don't know why you think Little Chicago has to blow up for Future Harry to fix it.

[morriswalters]

It works perfectly if Harry Already Changed the Past and we're on an already-changed timeline. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAlreadyChangedThePast
I don't know why you think Little Chicago has to blow up for Future Harry to fix it.

Accept my apologies if you aren't talking to me or if this post isn't responsive to yours.

Because the text says so.  I quote the passage below.  The trope you quote doesn't cover this case.    Harry isn't changing someone else's future.  The takeaway from the quoted  exchange is that Harry would  have died, which is what fuses do.  For future Harry to know of that event he needs to survive it.  The span of time from first use to Bob revealing the flaw is a discontinuity.  Someone from the past could tell him in the future as long as their knowledge preexisted that period of time.

“Oh,” he said. “I found something wrong with Little Chicago’s design.”
I swallowed. “Oh. Wow. Bad?”
“Extremely. We missed a transition coupling in the power flow. The stored energy was all going to the same spot.”
I frowned. “That’s… like a surge of electricity going through a circuit breaker, right? Or a fuse box.”
“Exactly like that,” Bob said. “Except that you were the fuse. That much energy in one spot will blow your head off your shoulders.”
“But it didn’t,” I said.
“But it didn’t,” Bob agreed.
“How is that possible?”
“It isn’t,” he said. “Someone fixed it.”
“What? Are you sure?”
“It didn’t fix itself,” Bob said. “When I looked at it a few nights ago, the flawed section was in plain sight, even if I didn’t recognize it at the time. When I looked again tonight, it was different. Someone changed it.”

[nadia.skylark]

I don't know why you think Little Chicago has to blow up for Future Harry to fix it.

Little Chicago doesn't have to blow up in order for Future Harry to fix it. What does have to happen is that Future Harry needs to find out about the problem without dying first, before he can come back to fix it.

This is a problem because if, in Future Harry's timeline, the thing different than in current Harry's timeline that effected Little Chicago was that Little Chicago was not fixed, it would have killed Harry. Therefore, if Future Harry fixed Little Chicago, then he must have either been the one to cause Current Harry to need to use Little Chicago in this timeline (ex by being responsible for Molly's kidnapping or preventing Current Harry from getting other information about her location) or have used something Current Harry didn't consider an option to survive the explosion (ex taking up Lasciel's coin).

Any theories positing that Future Harry fixed Little Chicago, therefore, have to include something to address this.