Another Cowl Theory

[g33k]

Would it be, though? I mean, Kumori as Elaine would be awful for him, sure, but Justin as Cowl...actually might make him feel quite a bit better about himself. It would, after all, confirm that Harry had never broken the Laws of magic. That doesn't seem like it would be a torment to him--quite the opposite.

Elaine going back to being Justin's lackey -- part of the Sith Bathrobe Brigade -- would be agony...  It would throw him straight back to the torments of the original betrayal, the agonies of those events.  "The first girl he ever everything'ed" is still(again?) secretly betraying him with Justin in pursuit of power.

Harry is already convinced that he is tainted/tempted by black magic...

• He PICKED UP Lasciel's denarius, after all.  Dunno 'bout you, but when I make a move for a coin... I stomp on it first thing.  Make sure it's not rolling away, that nobody else (Harry Carpenter) can get to it, etc.  Stooping to grab it?  That's some next-level power-claiming, that is!
• He has MET his shadow-self in dreams; he knows that somewhere inside him is the dream-Harry that had sex with Lasciel's shadow.  That part of him wants to "crush his enemies, see them driven before him, and to hear the lamentations of their women!" (without much apology to REH).
• EVERY time he is offered unconscionable power -- every time -- he has to wrestle with his conscience.  And as the enemies grow mightier, the evils grow darker, and losses harder to face... the conscience begins arguing that maybe the power in HARRY'S hands is actually the lesser evil.  He's already grabbed a coin.  He's made That Deal with the wickedest Faerie Queen.  I'm sure there's worse to come...

Having not-actually-killed Justin?  Actually may not seem like a big enough feather on the scales of justice.  There's plenty of warden-sword fodder in Harry's past, even without Justin's death.

[g33k]

I agree with you that Eb's not Cowl -- but why would you think Mother Winter would think there's something wrong with a Darkhallow? The faerie courts were founded on mass human sacrifice. Remember the Stone Table?

  It's not the killing mortals she'd object to; it's elevating a Dark God of necromancy.  It's a destabilization of the existing, natural order; and the Mothers are BIG into preserving the natural order.

It's Cowl's work with outsiders that would have Mother Winter pulling out her good set of teeth.

I'm not entirely certain that Cowl IS working with the Outsiders; but I'm not sure that he's not, either.  But I agree -- Mother Winter will likely know, and it's nothing she'd tolerate.  But OTOH, I'm less sure of the "Mother Winter's walking stick" theory than I was...  per WoJ:

Q: How long has the White Council had the Blackstaff?
A: Look for Celtic Lore around 1065 ad.

Q:  Can you tell us a little more about the black staff?
A: ... the White Council stole it from someone.  And they really want it back.

I'm trying to imagine Mother Winter "really wanting" a hefty chunk of her own power back for most of 1000 years, and that not happening.  And I'm not seeing it work that way... no, really not seeing that...

[ClintACK]

Re: Dark Hallow...

I can't remember where I'm getting this from, but I thought we knew that the Faerie Courts were created by essentially performing a Dark Hallow using the Stone Table.

Maybe there's something essentially different about doing it using a soul-vacuum effect like Cowl planned to, rather than actually killing each victim on the table, but I wouldn't be so sure of that.

I'm not entirely certain that Cowl IS working with the Outsiders; but I'm not sure that he's not, either.  But I agree -- Mother Winter will likely know, and it's nothing she'd tolerate. 

After Dead Beat, I would have agreed. I was assuming that a lot of the bad guys -- Nicodemus and Cowl especially -- were using evil means for a good cause, and the biggest "good cause" that would let you justify all kinds of evil was the Outsider threat.

After White Night, though, it's hard to escape the conclusion that Cowl is working with Outsiders. Vitto was possessed by an Outsider (probably HWWB4) and he called Cowl "Master".

[kbrizzle]

@Snark Knight
I’ve wrestled with whether he is Nfected or just on Black Council. Nemesis wants the Ramps to win since the WC is a significant obstacle to their plans. If the Ramps won, imagine how much more chaos there would be - the WC maintains order by clamping down on black magic. If it is soundly defeated or diminished in the war with the Ramps, all the better since there would be no one to enforce the Laws, especially the 7th. Additionally, the WC is clearly allied with Winter (Blackstaff, Gatekeeper etc.). Defeating one of Winter’s strongest allies would be a huge win for the Outsiders.

If you recall, Ortega didn’t want to start the war at the end of GP, & indeed he comes to Chicago in DM for this purpose. It also seems to be somewhat common knowledge amongst the smarter denizens of this world that the war was a couple of decades too early for the Ramps to win decisively (like Shiro says) - no one (including Bianca or Ortega) expected Harry to choose Susan at the end of GP. The circumstances demanded that they declare war & some of the more bloodlusted Ramps thought they could win (they were no doubt listening to Cowl telling them about how the Council has rotted) - the smart money was always on waiting a while to shore up their forces. Nemesis would be with the smart money.

@ClintACK
Completely agree that Cowl is working with Outsiders especially after WN - I took it to mean that Vito was Nfected not possessed by HWWB4.

I also think you’re right that Harry does have tendencies to walk on the left hand path, as g33k points out about picking up the coin.

@g33k
I took the fact that Mother Winter wants her staff back to mean that she realizes that Nemesis is in the middle of another big plan, & it has been doing a little too well - the chaos it & it’s allies have fomented in the mortal world is not giving her confidence that the WC can control things properly.

@nadia
Harry didn’t know that HWWB was an Outsider till GS. He didn’t even know they were real until CD - he just thought they were very exotic demons before. So you’re right about him not knowing that there are likely 2 different taints on him.

[nadia.skylark]

Elaine going back to being Justin's lackey -- part of the Sith Bathrobe Brigade -- would be agony...  It would throw him straight back to the torments of the original betrayal, the agonies of those events.  "The first girl he ever everything'ed" is still(again?) secretly betraying him with Justin in pursuit of power.

It would hurt him, sure, but not any more than if she went to the dark side by helping someone else. The only difference would be that he would probably be more disgusted with himself for not having worked it out.

Having not-actually-killed Justin?  Actually may not seem like a big enough feather on the scales of justice.  There's plenty of warden-sword fodder in Harry's past, even without Justin's death.

I weigh things differently. Killing Justin was, in his opinion, what made him bad. Everything else just confirmed it. To me, that would seem to imply that killing Justin did more damage and was a greater source of pain to him personally, regardless of the objective measure. It's like Harry was shoved down a flight of stairs through a window, and ended up with bruises, lacerations, and a broken collarbone. All of those things hurt, but a broken collarbone hurts worse, and if it suddenly isn't broken anymore he's still going to feel quite a bit better even though he's still injured.

However, I have revised my opinion. I no longer believe that finding out that Cowl is Justin would make him feel better--I believe that he simply wouldn't accept it as true. As I posted earlier, there's no particular reason for him to believe it, and several extremely good reasons not to. Furthermore, he lives in a world where not only is shapeshifting a thing, but it's known to be used for extremely detailed impersonation.