I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why

[Bad Alias]

Butters' plot/character arc in Skin Game makes perfect sense. Faith, redemption, trust, etc. Y'all said it well, so I'm not going to repeat it and say it worse.

My problem is that Butters' character arc from Ghost Story through Skin Game doesn't. If Butters had been the one all doubtful in Ghost Story and Cold Days, it would make perfect sense, but that was what Murphy was doing in those books. I don't think Butters' motivations are apparent. I think we have to back into them too much given what Butters said and did in the previous two installments. Butters just doesn't seem the suspicious doubting type to me. The Butters/Murphy role reversal is probably in my top five problems with the entire series.

The others are, in order that they come to mind:

(click to show/hide)

1. That rules for magic were different in the first three books.
2. The law of magic is "shall not kill" instead of "shall not murder" or anything in between.
3. The effect wizards have on technology is problematic because Harry wouldn't be able to walk down the street without destroying millions of dollars worth of tech, much less place an order at Burger King.
4. Murphy's unexplained antagonism to Dresden in Fool Moon.
5. The Butters/Murphy role reversal.

Spoilered because 1. who cares? and 2. they all have been their own threads (except maybe 1).

[huangjimmy108]

First, at least half my point was that Butters should have been asking the kind of questions that would prevent him from doing something stupid. Second, while it is obviously not anyone else's responsibility to keep Butters from doing stupid things, my point here is that giving him information very likely would have prevented him from doing something stupid, and that that is, in fact, a good reason to give him said information.

..So now Butters' reasoning is "Harry's gone completely dark side, and not only that, he's tricked Thomas the vampire who grew up dealing with deception and manipulation, and not only that, he's tricked Murphy the incipient wielder of Fidellachius (bearing in mind that Knights are really hard to trick) who's known him for something like two decades at this point...oh, and he must also have tricked Bob too, even though Bob's personality is literally shaped by his wielder, so it seems impossible that Bob could not understand said wielder...so I'm just going to ignore anything anyone says about Harry, in fact, I'm not going to even ask--I'm not ignoring evidence, just trickery..." It seems implausible and out of character. Furthermore, if he was going to assume that Harry was this kind of master of deception, why would he ask Harry for an explanation in Skin Game, and why wouldn't he question this "master of deception" thing when Harry flat out said that he was involved in something shady rather than coming up with a convincing lie?

I get that Jim is trying to make a point--I just wish he'd done it differently. I've provided a scenario that would allow Butters to be both smart and suspicious, and I'm certain that other people could come up with more--but the way it's done just makes Butters look stupid and out of character.

Perhaps we could chalk that up to inexpirience. I mean, Butters is knowledgeable in theory. He has the making of a good scientist. But the kind of skill to know when or how or what questions to ask under pressure and under a very limited amount of time, and to react with limited, incomplete and uncertain information, that is not a skill set of a scientist. That is a skill set of James Bond.

Hell, even now Harry sometimes could still do something stupid and we don't need to mention how many stupid things Harry did during his early days. Butters has just started on this "Batman" business. He may be a long time player, but when it comes to the frontline action he is a newbe.

[huangjimmy108]

Butters' plot/character arc in Skin Game makes perfect sense. Faith, redemption, trust, etc. Y'all said it well, so I'm not going to repeat it and say it worse.

My problem is that Butters' character arc from Ghost Story through Skin Game doesn't. If Butters had been the one all doubtful in Ghost Story and Cold Days, it would make perfect sense, but that was what Murphy was doing in those books. I don't think Butters' motivations are apparent. I think we have to back into them too much given what Butters said and did in the previous two installments. Butters just doesn't seem the suspicious doubting type to me. The Butters/Murphy role reversal is probably in my top five problems with the entire series.

The others are, in order that they come to mind:

(click to show/hide)

1. That rules for magic were different in the first three books.
2. The law of magic is "shall not kill" instead of "shall not murder" or anything in between.
3. The effect wizards have on technology is problematic because Harry wouldn't be able to walk down the street without destroying millions of dollars worth of tech, much less place an order at Burger King.
4. Murphy's unexplained antagonism to Dresden in Fool Moon.
5. The Butters/Murphy role reversal.

Spoilered because 1. who cares? and 2. they all have been their own threads (except maybe 1).

It make sense if you think about Bob. When Harry died in book 12 up untill his return in CD, I am certain Bob has all good things to say about Harry. Up to that point Butters probably been listening about Harry's goody goody side. This should explain why Butters is acting positively to Harry in book 14. In fact, Butters's expectation might been raise a bit too high.

At the end of CD, presumably Butters gets Bob back. If we pay attention to how Bob acted when facing the newly return, winter knight Harryin book 14, it is clear that Bob is certain that Harry has gone darkside or least soon to be anyway. In fact, I rather get the impression that Bob is afraid of Harry. In the year between book 14 up to start of book 15, what Bob been feeding Butters about Harry probably isn't anything good, which would explain Butters's attitude during book 15.

And what is wrong with Murphy's reaction in FM?

[nadia.skylark]

I mean, Butters is knowledgeable in theory. He has the making of a good scientist. But the kind of skill to know when or how or what questions to ask under pressure and under a very limited amount of time, and to react with limited, incomplete and uncertain information, that is not a skill set of a scientist. That is a skill set of James Bond.

Yeah, but he had over a year to ask questions. That's hardly a limited time frame.

It make sense if you think about Bob. When Harry died in book 12 up untill his return in CD, I am certain Bob has all good things to say about Harry. Up to that point Butters probably been listening about Harry's goody goody side. This should explain why Butters is acting positively to Harry in book 14. In fact, Butters's expectation might been raise a bit too high.

At the end of CD, presumably Butters gets Bob back. If we pay attention to how Bob acted when facing the newly return, winter knight Harryin book 14, it is clear that Bob is certain that Harry has gone darkside or least soon to be anyway. In fact, I rather get the impression that Bob is afraid of Harry. In the year between book 14 up to start of book 15, what Bob been feeding Butters about Harry probably isn't anything good, which would explain Butters's attitude during book 15.

Maybe. My problem with this reasoning is that Butters and Bob seem to have fundamentally different worries regarding Harry: Bob is worried about the Winter Knight mantle, whereas Butters is worried about Harry coming back from the dead.

And what is wrong with Murphy's reaction in FM?

She punches Harry in the face and refuses to let him say anything. Up until this point, we have been asked to understand Murphy's negative behavior towards Dresden as being the result of her being a good cop, and Dresden doing things that a good cop would object to. Punching suspects, however, is not being a good cop--it is police brutality. And not letting Dresden say anything is just being a stupid cop--he might have been confessing, considering how upset he was. And understanding Murphy's treatment of Dresden as not actually being a result of her being a good cop and caring about the law makes her, in my opinion, a character that's much harder to empathize with and not dislike.

[Mira]

It make sense if you think about Bob. When Harry died in book 12 up untill his return in CD, I am certain Bob has all good things to say about Harry. Up to that point Butters probably been listening about Harry's goody goody side. This should explain why Butters is acting positively to Harry in book 14. In fact, Butters's expectation might been raise a bit too high.

Except Butters has known Harry since before Dead Beat,  he had Harry's respect before that because he called what he found as a pathologist as he saw it and paid a high price for it.  Harry saw something in Butters worth saving when Thomas only saw him as a coward to be thrown under the bus.  So his view of Harry was formed before he came to know Bob..  Also if you follow the conversations between Harry and Butters before Skin Game, Butters has always taken a logical intelligent view of things even when he was scared out of his mind. 

At the end of CD, presumably Butters gets Bob back. If we pay attention to how Bob acted when facing the newly return, winter knight Harryin book 14, it is clear that Bob is certain that Harry has gone darkside or least soon to be anyway. In fact, I rather get the impression that Bob is afraid of Harry. In the year between book 14 up to start of book 15, what Bob been feeding Butters about Harry probably isn't anything good, which would explain Butters's attitude during book 15.

It is more I think that Bob is afraid of Mab... Harry is now Mab's Knight so it is logical since last we heard, Bob still hasn't atoned for whatever he did to offend Mab.  So it is logical that he'd be afraid that Harry was out to get him because Mab ordered it.  So it is logical that Bob might be feeding his fears to Butters..  Butters because of his frustration and ignorance as to why Harry isn't around when they really need him would eventually become a believer and they'd feed off of each other..  Let us not forget that Bob has been wrong at times, but Butters lacks the knowledge and training to see it.

[huangjimmy108]

Yeah, but he had over a year to ask questions. That's hardly a limited time frame.

Maybe. My problem with this reasoning is that Butters and Bob seem to have fundamentally different worries regarding Harry: Bob is worried about the Winter Knight mantle, whereas Butters is worried about Harry coming back from the dead.

She punches Harry in the face and refuses to let him say anything. Up until this point, we have been asked to understand Murphy's negative behavior towards Dresden as being the result of her being a good cop, and Dresden doing things that a good cop would object to. Punching suspects, however, is not being a good cop--it is police brutality. And not letting Dresden say anything is just being a stupid cop--he might have been confessing, considering how upset he was. And understanding Murphy's treatment of Dresden as not actually being a result of her being a good cop and caring about the law makes her, in my opinion, a character that's much harder to empathize with and not dislike.

Actually, The time frame is far more limited than what appears on the surface. Butters need to ask the question and gotten a satisfactory answer within a limited time after end of book 14. The more time lapse the more suspicion has time to sets in. If suspicion sets into deep, even the right explanation won't work anymore. Since the book don't show us, I don't really know how long Butters could stay positive about Harry after end of SG. Would Butters accept the explanation if he get the information 3 months after end of CD?  or ist it 6 months? or 1 month is already too long.

And I don't think Butters is hankering about Harry coming back from the dead. He is more worried about Harry is not Harry anymore. He accuse Harry of becoming more and more like the fae for example. Bob is dead certain that it will only be a matter of time for Harry to turn into Lloyd Slate version 2.0, so if Butters has been listening to Bob all this time. Well the result is evident.

As for FM Murphy. It should be remembered that at the end of SF, there are rumors running around that Harry has become Marcone's henchman and the fall of Victor Sells and the three eye drug, is Harry acting on Marcone orders.

At the start of book 2, Harry has been losing income since SI has not been calling him for a job lately. When Murphy appear to ask Harry for help, she explain that the above rumor has cause some pressure in the police force. If not for Murphy standing up for Harry, it is likely that Harry is already captured by the police.

Before the event in Mcfinn house, in which that girl, I forgot her name, is found dead. Marcone visits Harry. It makes it look a lot like Harry is taking Marcone's orders.

This and that circle diagram Murphy found in Mac's bar.

You can see that Murphy has been getting wave after wave of circumstancial evidence that suggest Harry is the bad guy. It is not in FM only, the trust between Harry and Murphy has been put to the test since end of SF. Considering that the level of trust between the 2 is still relatively new and not as strong as say in book 6 or book 10, for Murphy to give Harry that much leeway is already good enough. When that trust is seemingly betrayed, Murphy obviously blew up.

Of course, she is proven wrong in the end, and she apologize for it. But the fact that she punch Harry is quite understandable at the time. Well, perhaps she should not go so far as doing physical violence, but I think her anger and disappointment is understandable.

[forumghost]

Yeah no, Murphy was an unjustifiable level of asshole in that book.

Harry was clearly not involved (he's blatantly in shock after seeing Kim's body) and she not only assaults him, she continues to assault him after he's been cuffed, because he tried to talk to her. Hard enough that we find out he needed dental work done for it afterwards.

Seriously, look at his reaction to seeing her body:

Something went 'click' in my head. Someone threw some kind of switch that just turned off my emotions entirely and immersed me in a surreal haze. I couldn't be seeing this. It simply couldn't be real. It had to be some sort of game or hoax, in which the actors would start giggling in a few moments, unable to contain the mirth of their prank.

I waited. But no one started giggling. I wiped at my forehead with my hand and found cold sweat there. My fingers began to shake.

Murphy said, her voice still tight with anger, "Apparently, the incense set off the fire alarm in the hall. When the fire department got here, no one answered, so they came on in. They found her up here, around eight o'clock. She was still warm."

Eight o'clock. When I had been talking to the demon. Moonrise?

Behind me, Murphy closed the door to the bedroom. I turned to her, away from the grisly corpse. There was anger in every inch of her, in the way she glared at me.

"Murph," I said. "I don't know if I can do this."

And then when she shows him the circle:

MacFinn had killed her. Kim was dead because I had refused to share my knowledge with her, because I hadn't given her my help. I had been so secure in my knowledge and wisdom; withholding such secrets from her had been the action of a concerned and reasoned adult speaking to an overeager child. I couldn't believe my own arrogance, the utter confidence with which I had condemned her to death.

I started to shake, harder, too many things pressing against my head, my heart. I could feel the pressure, somewhere inside of me, that switch on the inside of my head quivering, getting ready to flick back beneath a tide of raging anger, fury, regret, self-hatred. I took deep breaths and closed my eyes, trying not to let it happen.

I opened my eyes and looked up at Murphy. God, I needed to talk to her. I needed a friend. I needed someone to listen, to tell me it would be all right whether it was the truth or not. I needed someone to let me unload on them, to keep me from flying apart.

Like, he's literally in the middle of a real, physical breakdown, with involuntary shakes and everything. And Murphy, seeing this, thinks that she should go for the old assault and battery.

And iirc, Murphy didn't know anything about the meeting that Dresden had with Marcone, the only thing she knew was that Harry threw away the picture of the Circle.

Like honestly, Murphy in Fool Moon is a Grade-A psycho bitch. Thank god she improved as a character afterwards.

[nadia.skylark]

Actually, The time frame is far more limited than what appears on the surface. Butters need to ask the question and gotten a satisfactory answer within a limited time after end of book 14. The more time lapse the more suspicion has time to sets in. If suspicion sets into deep, even the right explanation won't work anymore. Since the book don't show us, I don't really know how long Butters could stay positive about Harry after end of SG. Would Butters accept the explanation if he get the information 3 months after end of CD?  or ist it 6 months? or 1 month is already too long.

Why? Why would Butters only listen to information that he gets when he's not suspicious? This just makes no sense to me.

And I don't think Butters is hankering about Harry coming back from the dead. He is more worried about Harry is not Harry anymore. He accuse Harry of becoming more and more like the fae for example. Bob is dead certain that it will only be a matter of time for Harry to turn into Lloyd Slate version 2.0, so if Butters has been listening to Bob all this time. Well the result is evident.

Well, maybe. But Butters explicitly says that what he's concerned about is that Harry has come back from the dead wrong.

As for FM Murphy. It should be remembered that at the end of SF, there are rumors running around that Harry has become Marcone's henchman and the fall of Victor Sells and the three eye drug, is Harry acting on Marcone orders.

At the start of book 2, Harry has been losing income since SI has not been calling him for a job lately. When Murphy appear to ask Harry for help, she explain that the above rumor has cause some pressure in the police force. If not for Murphy standing up for Harry, it is likely that Harry is already captured by the police.

I'm reasonably confident that Harry can't be thrown in jail on the basis of rumors, no matter what Murphy's doing.

Before the event in Mcfinn house, in which that girl, I forgot her name, is found dead. Marcone visits Harry. It makes it look a lot like Harry is taking Marcone's orders.

This and that circle diagram Murphy found in Mac's bar.

You can see that Murphy has been getting wave after wave of circumstancial evidence that suggest Harry is the bad guy. It is not in FM only, the trust between Harry and Murphy has been put to the test since end of SF. Considering that the level of trust between the 2 is still relatively new and not as strong as say in book 6 or book 10, for Murphy to give Harry that much leeway is already good enough. When that trust is seemingly betrayed, Murphy obviously blew up.

Not an excuse. It's an excuse for everything up until that point, but not for her punching Harry and refusing to hear a word he says. I'm not expecting her to like Harry, or trust Harry, or not arrest Harry, but I do expect her to be able to do her job, especially since her job has been, like I said, the reason I've been giving her a pass on all the other stuff she's done regarding not trusting Harry.

In this scene, she's acting worse than book 1 Morgan. She's doing the whole "Harry has some tenuous connection to what's happened, so he must be to blame--and I don't care about any other evidence!" thing that Morgan did in Storm Front, only Morgan never descended to the level of physically assaulting Harry.

Of course, she is proven wrong in the end, and she apologize for it.

When? I don't remember her apologizing until Proven Guilty, and only then when Harry brings it up. That doesn't feel much like an apology to me.

Of course, she is proven wrong in the end, and she apologize for it. But the fact that she punch Harry is quite understandable at the time. Well, perhaps she should not go so far as doing physical violence, but I think her anger and disappointment is understandable.

No. If she'd been friends with Harry for years (and had rather better evidence) then her behavior would be understandable, because in that case Harry would have betrayed her trust. But nothing we have seen to this point in the books shows that Harry actually has her trust, her evidence is poor, and she refuses to listen to other evidence. Furthermore, the reason we are supposed to accept for Murphy not trusting Harry despite the fact that Harry clearly considers her a friend is that she's a cop--so I don't feel it's at all understandable for her to start gratuitously punching suspects, and I reserve the right to think she's awful for it.

[Mira]

Not an excuse. It's an excuse for everything up until that point, but not for her punching Harry and refusing to hear a word he says. I'm not expecting her to like Harry, or trust Harry, or not arrest Harry, but I do expect her to be able to do her job, especially since her job has been, like I said, the reason I've been giving her a pass on all the other stuff she's done regarding not trusting Harry.

In this scene, she's acting worse than book 1 Morgan. She's doing the whole "Harry has some tenuous connection to what's happened, so he must be to blame--and I don't care about any other evidence!" thing that Morgan did in Storm Front, only Morgan never descended to the level of physically assaulting Harry.

   In a way Murphy reacted as she always has, she prejudged..  If I remember correctly she never closely questioned Harry about anything, she found the scrap of paper Harry had written for Kim and jumped to conclusions..  It is a flaw in her character, she thinks she knows better than anyone else, it was the same flaw that got a Holy Sword broken... 

[morriswalters]

Why? Why would Butters only listen to information that he gets when he's not suspicious? This just makes no sense to me.

It's about doubt.  Once it's in play, it colors everything.  What Butters is afraid of is something he can't see.  There is no test he can run. No way for him to know for sure.  Murphy is in the same boat.  Murphy makes her choice based on trust, not facts.  She can't know any better then Butters.  Butters can't take that leap of faith. 

[Bad Alias]

Murphy didn't just violate the tenets of good policing; she feloniously violated the Constitution.

Here is Murphy's evidence that Dresden was involved in the murders:
1. He knew a member of a tight knit community he was a prominent, maybe the most prominent, member of.
2. The victim was angry with him, maybe about the circle.
3. The circle was in the home.
4. Harry said to hold off on an APB until Murphy was ready to go to war with Tera.
5. There was a photo of Tera in the home.

Reason number one is the reason she hires him in the first place.
Reason number three is that there was an occult symbol associated with one of the murders and Harry, an expert in the occult. That's like a Christian symbol being associated with a theologian and a murder in a monastery.
Reason number four was just a warning to act with caution.

Murphy has reason to be suspicious of Dresden and even to take him in for questioning. Maybe enough to charge him with something. As long as he doesn't get a bad lawyer, she doesn't have nearly enough to convict him. Since she doesn't have enough to convict him, she should let him talk. That's how she gets more evidence; even if he just lies to her. A bunch of lies that can be proven false would help in a prosecution.

Twice in this book, Murphy gets enough evidence to satisfy her that someone, who isn't guilty, is guilty of a crime, so the investigation should stop. While police actually do this all the time, it's terrible police work.

As Mira points out, Murphy does this because she is guilty of the sin of pride. She substitutes her judgment for standard police practices and the Constitution. (In Skin Game she substitutes her judgment for that of the WG, which is the first sin recorded in the Bible).

And this is why I believe Murphy is in S.I. to begin with. I don't think she made enemies just by being a woman competent in a "man's" field. I think she made enemies by indulging in her pride and anger. Murphy probably felt entitled to a promotion and reacted with anger when she didn't get it. Then the opening in S.I. happened, so her superiors gave her the promotion. And much like Butters' behavior in Skin Game, I think this should be better explained in the text, or it doesn't really make sense without a lot of back filling of motivation/character by the audience.

I think we can come up with explanations for why both of them are behaving the way they are, but I think we have to stretch the texts to do it. I think that is bad writing (unless it was done on purpose with an explanation meant to come later).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what Morris is saying is that it makes thematic sense for Butters to behave this way. I agree with that. Where I disagree is that it doesn't make sense for his character to be behaving this way at this point in the series without more.

Butters has access to more information than any other character, except maybe Michael, to trust that Harry didn't come back wrong because Bob was the one who first figured out what happened to Harry in Ghost Story. I.e. that Harry wasn't even dead, and that Uriel, Archangel of the Lord, is behind it. That should be enough to convince Butters that Harry didn't come back "wrong."

[nadia.skylark]

It's about doubt.  Once it's in play, it colors everything.  What Butters is afraid of is something he can't see.  There is no test he can run. No way for him to know for sure.  Murphy is in the same boat.  Murphy makes her choice based on trust, not facts.  She can't know any better then Butters.  Butters can't take that leap of faith.

Yeah, but...I'm not expecting Butters to take any leaps of faith. I'm expecting him to make a reasonable effort to gather evidence.

Murphy didn't just violate the tenets of good policing; she feloniously violated the Constitution.

Here is Murphy's evidence that Dresden was involved in the murders:
1. He knew a member of a tight knit community he was a prominent, maybe the most prominent, member of.
2. The victim was angry with him, maybe about the circle.
3. The circle was in the home.
4. Harry said to hold off on an APB until Murphy was ready to go to war with Tera.
5. There was a photo of Tera in the home.

Reason number one is the reason she hires him in the first place.
Reason number three is that there was an occult symbol associated with one of the murders and Harry, an expert in the occult. That's like a Christian symbol being associated with a theologian and a murder in a monastery.
Reason number four was just a warning to act with caution.

Murphy has reason to be suspicious of Dresden and even to take him in for questioning. Maybe enough to charge him with something. As long as he doesn't get a bad lawyer, she doesn't have nearly enough to convict him. Since she doesn't have enough to convict him, she should let him talk. That's how she gets more evidence; even if he just lies to her. A bunch of lies that can be proven false would help in a prosecution.

Twice in this book, Murphy gets enough evidence to satisfy her that someone, who isn't guilty, is guilty of a crime, so the investigation should stop. While police actually do this all the time, it's terrible police work.

As Mira points out, Murphy does this because she is guilty of the sin of pride. She substitutes her judgment for standard police practices and the Constitution. (In Skin Game she substitutes her judgment for that of the WG, which is the first sin recorded in the Bible).

And this is why I believe Murphy is in S.I. to begin with. I don't think she made enemies just by being a woman competent in a "man's" field. I think she made enemies by indulging in her pride and anger. Murphy probably felt entitled to a promotion and reacted with anger when she didn't get it. Then the opening in S.I. happened, so her superiors gave her the promotion. And much like Butters' behavior in Skin Game, I think this should be better explained in the text, or it doesn't really make sense without a lot of back filling of motivation/character by the audience.

All of this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what Morris is saying is that it makes thematic sense for Butters to behave this way. I agree with that. Where I disagree is that it doesn't make sense for his character to be behaving this way at this point in the series without more.

Butters has access to more information than any other character, except maybe Michael, to trust that Harry didn't come back wrong because Bob was the one who first figured out what happened to Harry in Ghost Story. I.e. that Harry wasn't even dead, and that Uriel, Archangel of the Lord, is behind it. That should be enough to convince Butters that Harry didn't come back "wrong."

And this.

[morriswalters]

Yeah, but...I'm not expecting Butters to take any leaps of faith. I'm expecting him to make a reasonable effort to gather evidence.

What evidence?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what Morris is saying is that it makes thematic sense for Butters to behave this way.

No.  What I'm saying is that magic isn't science.  There are no breadcrumbs to examine, no forensics.  They can't soul gaze Harry, or call up Mab to ask her.  They don't have Uriel on speed dial.  There is no tangible fact that they can examine.  This is the nature of the problem.    The question is, is the Harry standing in front of them the same Harry they allied themselves with?  Everyone keeps saying that they should explain it to Butters, what I'm asking is, how?

[nadia.skylark]

What evidence?

Asking Bob how Harry came back from the dead. Asking Thomas or Murphy why Harry's staying on Demonreach rather than being in Chicago. I've said before, if there was some indication that he was asking questions, I'd be fine with him still being suspicious because he either wasn't getting answers or he had (good) reason to suspect that the answers he got were lies. But we have no indication that he was even trying to find out what was really going on.

No.  What I'm saying is that magic isn't science.  There are no breadcrumbs to examine, no forensics.  They can't soul gaze Harry, or call up Mab to ask her.  They don't have Uriel on speed dial.  There is no tangible fact that they can examine.  This is the nature of the problem.    The question is, is the Harry standing in front of them the same Harry they allied themselves with?  Everyone keeps saying that they should explain it to Butters, what I'm asking is, how?

Wait, why can't they soulgaze Harry? And tell Butters about the parasite in Harry's head? Butters has independent confirmation that something has been wonky in Harry's head since before Turn Coat, since Butters was the one examining Harry's head to find out what was causing the headaches. Why couldn't Bob have said that it was still Harry even though he was concerned about the Winter Knight mantle?

For that matter, why couldn't Murphy have said, "Well, he agreed to give back Bob and let me keep the Swords, and a bad guy never would have done that"? That was supposed to be this big trust thing, wasn't it?

[Mira]

No.  What I'm saying is that magic isn't science.  There are no breadcrumbs to examine, no forensics.  They can't soul gaze Harry, or call up Mab to ask her.  They don't have Uriel on speed dial.  There is no tangible fact that they can examine.  This is the nature of the problem.    The question is, is the Harry standing in front of them the same Harry they allied themselves with?  Everyone keeps saying that they should explain it to Butters, what I'm asking is, how?

Murphy clearly knew that Butters was unhappy because Harry wasn't there to help with the Fomen.  Children were disappearing and he felt powerless..  He has no clue as to why Harry was staying on the island..  He may have known about Mab blocking things, that is the extent of it.  Though he did know about the severe headaches that Harry had been having prior to Changes, suggesting even that Harry go in for some tests disregarding the problems wizards have with medical devices..  All that needed to be said to him perhaps was being on the island kept the pain away..  I also think Butters has great respect for Bob's knowledge, but not necessarily know the full history between Mab or rather the Winter Court and Bob,  so not take his views as perhaps just a bit prejudiced that it was bad news for Harry...   

For that matter, why couldn't Murphy have said, "Well, he agreed to give back Bob and let me keep the Swords, and a bad guy never would have done that"? That was supposed to be this big trust thing, wasn't it?

Very true...  But then again, if Harry wasn't bad why didn't she give the Swords back to him?  Harry also could have just asked to borrow Bob instead of kidnap him..  It might even have helped to have brought Butters along, if that was allowed.