Mab is Nfected question

[kbrizzle]

It seems like some people on this forum believe that Mab is Nfected herself - I have never understood the reasoning behind this theory & was wondering if someone could explain it.

If she were Nfected, why haven’t the Outsiders won already?

[nadia.skylark]

It seems like some people on this forum believe that Mab is Nfected herself - I have never understood the reasoning behind this theory & was wondering if someone could explain it.

If she were Nfected, why haven’t the Outsiders won already?

Possibly because Mab is resisting the Nfection.

I don't really see "Mab is Infected" as a particularly likely direction for the plot to go, given that we've already seen "faerie queen is Nfected" twice, but I've proposed that she is fighting off Nfection, and that at some point she will not be able to do so any longer, causing her to suicide and cause all sorts of problems. I think it's pretty clear that Mab has to die at some point in the books, and I think her killing herself to prevent the Outsiders getting her is more interesting than the Outsiders and/or their allies succeeding in killing her.

[Avernite]

See also this recent thread:

https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=53033.0

[kbrizzle]

I’m still not getting how we’ve gotten to Mab is fighting an Nfection - her actions from PG onward seem to be effective against Nemesis at every turn, & I don’t sense any conflict in her about this. Rather, her biggest conflict from books 7-14 was how to deal with the Nfection in Maeve. I thought there was a tragic symmetry in her being able to save Lea, one of her best “friends” but not Maeve, her own daughter.

While I do believe that there is some credence to the theories that Lea is not completely healed yet, I am yet to see any evidence that Mab is Nfected or fighting off an Nfection personally.

If she suspected that Lea had been Nfected (which she obviously did), why would she handle the athame so carelessly? After all, it’s an object of such power that Amoracchius is considered a replacement.

[nadia.skylark]

I’m still not getting how we’ve gotten to Mab is fighting an Nfection - her actions from PG onward seem to be effective against Nemesis at every turn, & I don’t sense any conflict in her - her biggest conflict from books 7-14 were how to deal with the Nfection in Maeve. I thought there was a tragic symmetry in her being able to save Lea, one of her best “friends” but not Maeve, her own daughter.

While I do believe that there is some credence to the theories that Lea is not completely healed yet, I am yet to see any evidence that Mab is Nfection or fighting off an Nfection personally.

If she suspected that Lea had been Nfected (which she obviously did), why would she handle the athame so carelessly? After all, it’s an object of such power that Amoracchius is considered a replacement.

Personally, I think that if Mab is Nfected (which I'm not sure about) then it comes from imprisoning Lea in Winter's Wellspring. Winter's Wellspring would seem to be the heart of Mab's power, so it makes sense to me that, along with allowing her to cure Lea, having a Nemesis agent literally in the heart of her power would put her at some risk for Nfection.

Obviously, Mab would not have attempted to cure Lea if she thought that it would result in being Nfected herself, but she may have underestimated Nemesis.

If Mab is Nfected, she's obviously fighting it effectively for the moment, but that probably won't last. I tend to think of Nfection as something like tuberculosis, in that it can/will go dormant when the host is strong, only to emerge when the host weakens. If this is the case and Mab is indeed Nfected, then as things get worse (as they must, given that we have an apocalyptic trilogy coming up) Mab will become vulnerable and Nemesis will strike.

[kbrizzle]

Hmm if the Winter Wellspring were poisoned, wouldn’t Mother Winter be affected too?

If Mab were Nfected, why would Nfected Maeve try to replace her? It would be much easier & less risky to simply help the Outsider overwhelm Mab’s defenses than to kill one of the most powerful immortals on the planet.

[nadia.skylark]

Hmm if the Winter Wellspring were poisoned, wouldn’t Mother Winter be affected too?

If Mab can fight off Nfection for several years, I doubt that it could get close to actually affecting Mother Winter, even if she is technically Nfected.

If Mab were Nfected, why would Nfected Maeve try to replace her? It would be much easier & less risky to simply help the Outsider overwhelm Mab’s defenses than to kill one of the most powerful immortals on the planet.

The reason Maeve is working with Nemesis is specifically to beat her mother--that's her motivation, not helping Outsiders. The Outsider thing is just a means to an end.

[Cozarkian]

I’m still not getting how we’ve gotten to Mab is fighting an Nfection - . . .

I am yet to see any evidence that Mab is Nfected or fighting off an Nfection personally.

It's classic misdirection. Suggest Mab might be Nfected then present evidence that it is actually other people who are Nfected (specifically the people accusing Mab), so that the readers will be surprised when they learn Mab actually was Nfected.

Mab isn't being controlled by Nemesis or working with Nemesis, but the text is consistent with her being tainted by Nemesis in a similar way that Harry was tainted when he touched Lasciel's coin but refused to pick it up and buried it instead.

[kbrizzle]

@ Cozarkian
That is interesting - in what way is Mab being shown behaving in a similar way as Harry was when he carried Lash? Also remember that the Mantles “talk” to their wearers - Harry certainly has to reason with Winter Knight mantle when he makes big decisions.

@nadia
I’m not so sure that that is the reason why Maeve seemed to be collaborating with Nemesis. As the Lady, Maeve spent a lot of time around mortals & changelings - this would affect the way she saw the world per Mother Summer. I believe that Maeve wanted free will & not to be bound by the laws of Winter as the Lady is - note that Molly says Maeve has been neglecting her duties for ~150 years - long before she was Nfected. I think her hatred for Mab arose from the fact that she & her mother wanted different things for her future. Maeve liked power, so she could never make the bargain that Sarissa had, & I doubt the Lady mantle can be cast off very easily.

[groinkick]

It seems like some people on this forum believe that Mab is Nfected herself - I have never understood the reasoning behind this theory & was wondering if someone could explain it.

If she were Nfected, why haven’t the Outsiders won already?

I'm not sure she is, but the theory is reasonable.  The reason the Outsiders wouldn't have already won would be because of the individual Infected.  Mab is incredibly powerful, and absolute in her attitude.  It's reasonable to assume that Nemesis might take a long time to work it's way past Mab's defenses. 

[Avernite]

I'm not sure she is, but the theory is reasonable.  The reason the Outsiders wouldn't have already won would be because of the individual Infected.  Mab is incredibly powerful, and absolute in her attitude.  It's reasonable to assume that Nemesis might take a long time to work it's way past Mab's defenses.

Reasonable, of course, is in the eye of the beholder. I would say it's reaching.

To me the whole plot of Cold Days was 'is Mab mad? Or is Maeve?' (a question which had been teased since at least Proven Guilty) and the answer was clearly Maeve, and by implication clearly not Mab (since she drove the attempt to take out Maeve, and her plotting before that point was all about revenge for being sidelined by Nemesis and its allies from Summer Knight on).
And Skin Game was a now-restored Winter striking back for slights offered during its weakened phase when second-in-command-Lea, Knight and Lady were all compromised.

[Cozarkian]

Reasonable, of course, is in the eye of the beholder. I would say it's reaching.

To me the whole plot of Cold Days was 'is Mab mad? Or is Maeve?' (a question which had been teased since at least Proven Guilty) and the answer was clearly Maeve, and by implication clearly not Mab (since she drove the attempt to take out Maeve, and her plotting before that point was all about revenge for being sidelined by Nemesis and its allies from Summer Knight on).
And Skin Game was a now-restored Winter striking back for slights offered during its weakened phase when second-in-command-Lea, Knight and Lady were all compromised.

To me the question of whether Mab is mad in Cold Days was a side show circus that added nothing to the story. There has been nothing since PG that leads any credence to the theory Mab was mad and in CD it was made apparent before Mab even asked Harry to kill Maeve that Maeve was the villian of the story. On its face it was used as a reason for Harry to go talk to the other Fae and Rashid, but it would have made sense for him to do that anyway just investigating Maeve and what was going on with Demonreach. Thus, the only real value that particular plot had for JB was to definitively show Mab is not infected - which doesn't make sense given how little evidence there is that she was infected, unless, of course, she is actually infected and the purpose of the plotline was to deceive the reader into believing she isn't.

[narphoenix]

To me the question of whether Mab is mad in Cold Days was a side show circus that added nothing to the story. There has been nothing since PG that leads any credence to the theory Mab was mad and in CD it was made apparent before Mab even asked Harry to kill Maeve that Maeve was the villian of the story. On its face it was used as a reason for Harry to go talk to the other Fae and Rashid, but it would have made sense for him to do that anyway just investigating Maeve and what was going on with Demonreach. Thus, the only real value that particular plot had for JB was to definitively show Mab is not infected - which doesn't make sense given how little evidence there is that she was infected, unless, of course, she is actually infected and the purpose of the plotline was to deceive the reader into believing she isn't.

I don't agree that it added nothing to the story at all: it was a theory that clearly originated from Maeve, and demonstrates an action that Maeve is taking to undermine Mab. Its place in the story isn't a random worry: it's deliberate malfeasance on the part of an enemy.

[kbrizzle]

We also have WoJ that Mab considers the defense of the Outer Gates to be the most important thing in her life. I believe Jim says that Mab would sacrifice herself, every human & Fae if she thought it would win her the war against the Outsiders. In Cold Days, she kills her daughter because she stands in the way of that goal.

If Mab knew she were Nfected, she would remove herself immediately, whether or not Molly is fit to be Queen. I suppose it’s possible that she doesn’t know, but as others have pointed out, what would be the point of that? It’s been played out

[nadia.skylark]

If Mab knew she were Nfected, she would remove herself immediately, whether or not Molly is fit to be Queen. I suppose it’s possible that she doesn’t know, but as others have pointed out, what would be the point of that? It’s been played out

I think she'd weigh the risks. If she were certain that she could hold out for, for example, 5 years, then I'd think she'd stick around for 4 to make sure things transitioned well and that she'd wrapped up any unfinished business that might cause trouble for her successor (like paying off old debts to inconvenient people).