Author Topic: Peace Talk Speculation  (Read 4939 times)

Offline dspringer1

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Peace Talk Speculation
« on: April 19, 2019, 10:57:48 PM »
This will almost certainly repeat prior threads, but we are getting close to the publish date for peace talks.  Probably worth settling some key questions.

1) Whose "peace" is peace talks about.    Is this about ending the war with the Red Court?

On one level, this question seems stupid.  The Red court is destroyed.    But on another level, this question is very valid.   The war was NOT between the Red court and the White Council.   The war was between ALLIANCES.  On one side is the White council, a few informed human organizations, Summer and Winter.   On the other is the Red Court (destroyed), the Black Court, the White Court and probably some other unnamed lesser allies.

Under the accords, I suspect a formal peace treaty is required to end this state of war, at least from the perspective of Winter and Summer.  I suspect all the warring powers would prefer that the "state of war under the Accords" be ended.    The Accords apply completely different rules to nations "at war" than to nations "not at war" and those rules probably matter a lot to many of the participants.  Therefore it is of considerable value to formally end the war under the Accords. 




2) If the peace talks are about ending the war, what is the problem?

Again, in theory the peace talks should be easy.  The White court wants peace and would be perfectly happy to return to the status quo.   I mean that seriously - the White Court has done very well in the war and they are likely to retain most of their gains in power and territory by a peace treaty.  Previous statements are that the black court is not a major power any more and I doubt any other formal allies wield great power.   So the only real power opposing the White Council's alliance wants peace.      In theory - this should make peace talks a slam dunk. 

But it is pretty obvious that the Peace Talks will not be easy.  So why not.   The answer was pretty clearly stated in Ghost Story and in Aftermath:  Power Vacuum.  The reality is that the peace talks are not about ending the war, they are about dividing the spoils.   And just like in WW1 or WW2, there are a ton of nations that played some minor role or jumped in at the last second and now want their own bit of the spoils.  So these nations are participating in the peace talks to get their share of the goodies. 

Then there are other nations like the Formor which simple took advantage of the power vacuum to grab territory/people.   So any division of the spoils means the war powers have to enforce that decision on the Formor and other supernatural nations that grabbed some spoils even though they were not part of the war.    These nations either need their "grabs" to be tacitly approved (aka - lack of protest = acceptance) or they need to managed (aka - included in the talks and convinced to support the collective division of spoils) or they need to driven out (another war).   

I suspect the Formor are there as the White Council cannot ignore their activity  (aka - grabbing spoils), but at the same time the White Council does not want another war.   So trying to manage the Formor via Peace talks is the only option that might give the White Council what they want.     I doubt many in the Senior Council believe this happy outcome is likely, but it is perfectly clear that most "lay wizards" are desperately tired of the war and willing to accept nearly anything that looks vaguely like a decent peace.     

Offline dspringer1

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2019, 10:59:41 PM »
My opinion is that the Formor have completely different motivations.    They are fundamentally not here about the spoils.  They are here to lay the groundwork for the next war - the one they plan on winning. 

Offline Lady Inez

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2019, 03:32:21 PM »
I was surprised by this sentence in the April Fool's message: "The long-awaited 16th novel of The Dresden Files is set at a summit of the various supernatural movers and shakers who shape Harry’s world, united to formulate a peace treaty with the Fomor." It doesn't seem like this is part of the joke, and if it is, it's a nicely subtle one.

I had thought the peace talks would be between the vampire courts and everyone else, so this wasn't what I was expecting, and it makes it seem like the proposed talks are an obvious set up for an ambush: would anyone really expect the Fomor as presented so far to want or need peace talks? They seem to be doing pretty well! I'm intrigued, and seeing this book less as a wrapping up of long-established plot lines and more as a resetting of the stage for the next and final acts instead. No wonder there are "so many funerals" mentioned in the Christmas story.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 06:17:46 PM »
My guess is that Peace Talks is much like Grave Peril, and the Vampire party Harry was obliged to go to.  One of the powers at be will use some sort of Rule of the Accords to call for a meeting.  Nemesis (or the Black Council) will use the opportunity to cause division between everyone there for the purpose of further dividing the powers of the mortal world.

They were also behind the war between the White Council, and the Red Court.  Although I don't think they could have predicted the outcome, the result is what they wanted, a power vacuum that the Fomor is beginning to fill.

The division that will be caused at the talks, and the loss of some important leaders will allow the Fomor to get an even bigger foothold into the world.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 06:19:54 PM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline RobReece

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2019, 03:43:36 AM »
In my opinion, everyone agrees that the Red Court war is over. From the first chapter that had been released, we know that the "Peace Talks" had been requested by the Fomor, who were not involved in the earlier conflict, except as suppliers of nasty munitions for the Ramps.
Personally. I think that they are using this primarily to draw in multiple heads of states so they can try to win a new war before it officially begins.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2019, 08:12:19 PM »
Yeah, getting groups together then killing them all seems to be their specialty.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2019, 09:15:26 PM »
In my opinion, everyone agrees that the Red Court war is over. From the first chapter that had been released, we know that the "Peace Talks" had been requested by the Fomor, who were not involved in the earlier conflict, except as suppliers of nasty munitions for the Ramps.
Personally. I think that they are using this primarily to draw in multiple heads of states so they can try to win a new war before it officially begins.


Hmmm, wonder if they will be patterned after the so called "peace talks" we were having with the Japanese just as they attacked Pearl Harbor?

Offline Kindler

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2019, 03:34:35 PM »
Jim said at some point that Peace Talks is going to be the most magically violent book in the series so far, so I assume that everyone is showing up to settle some old (or comparatively new) scores, the Fomor's probably being the oldest. I think it's a safe bet that the "peace talks" are little more than an excuse to get all of these Very Important People together in an attempt to behead several supernatural powers at once.

Offline BobbyWac

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2019, 04:29:16 PM »
I might be mistaken, but I thought that the Fomor were technically not signed on to the accords since they were mostly a conglomeration of remnants from former powers. I think they contact a member of the accords in an effort to sign on as signatories, while their true motives are to cut the heads off of as many powers as possible.

Offline Sydna

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Re: Peace Talk Speculation
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2019, 06:00:59 PM »
In the short story Even Hand they are described as being signatories.
Not by fire but by ice.