Curious passage in Summer Knight. Justin evidence?

[Cozarkian]

And remember, there is an ongoing undertone that Summer are really trying to kill Harry, and seem to have very odd links to the bad guys.

Oooh, elaborate please (probably in a new thread). The whole Summer trying to kill Harry thing I just thought was a natural result of Mab's use of Harry in Summer Knight, which then lead to Titania hating Harry for killing her daughter, and was followed by Mab's continued interest and use of Harry. Also, are there links to the bad guys other than Aurora? Because Leah and Maeve also got hit by the bad guys, so I don't think Aurora shows a special connection to the bad guys. If Leah went to Bianca's party, it's possible a summer representative was also at that party, and that whoever that was became the source of nemfection for Aurora.

Corpsetaker's death is an interesting case study. I think because Harry shoots him/her in the back of the head with no warning is the most likely reason that there was no Death Curse leveled at them. Whether Corpsetaker used a Death Curse as a means of continuing in the Between is another matter. Although I would point out, it was not necessary at all for Dresden's shade/soul to do such a thing to be able to be a part of events and still have a form of magic. He did have some pretty top-tier help though, and his body hadn't died so there are some differences. Though as Mab says, "Death is a spectrum, not a line". So my theory is that even if Justin had "died" it doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to come back again through his knowledge of Necromancy (assuming he is Cowl/can perform). I think it is reasonably apparent in the DV that you don't instantly go to beyond, or cease to exist. You soul/spirit carries on and exists and functions at a higher level. Which makes sense in a story that involves Necromancy and multiple afterlife destinations.

Harry stepped off the tracks - avoiding the southbound train - straight into purgatory and was sent back by Uriel. I don't think that was an option for Corpsetaker. Uriel wasn't going to help Corpsetaker and I don't think Lucifer would have either. Thus, Corpsetaker must have had some magical way to keep his/her spirit from passing on. It's probably not so much that Corpsetaker used a death curse to become a spirit, but rather that if Corpsetaker had used a death curse, he/she would have been unable to avoid what comes next. (I could be way off here - did Kemmler throw a death curse? - of course, Kemmler was better and probably had multiple ways to avoid what comes next.)

[Mira]

Harry stepped off the tracks - avoiding the southbound train - straight into purgatory and was sent back by Uriel. I don't think that was an option for Corpsetaker. Uriel wasn't going to help Corpsetaker and I don't think Lucifer would have either. Thus, Corpsetaker must have had some magical way to keep his/her spirit from passing on. It's probably not so much that Corpsetaker used a death curse to become a spirit, but rather that if Corpsetaker had used a death curse, he/she would have been unable to avoid what comes next. (I could be way off here - did Kemmler throw a death curse? - of course, Kemmler was better and probably had multiple ways to avoid what comes next.)

Corpsetaker didn't die until Mort dispatched him in Ghost Story..

[nadia.skylark]

Corpsetaker didn't die until Mort dispatched him in Ghost Story..

I'm pretty sure that Corpsetaker died when Harry killed him, and he just stuck around due to the whole "death is a spectrum" thing.

[Yuillegan]

I'm pretty sure that Corpsetaker died when Harry killed him, and he just stuck around due to the whole "death is a spectrum" thing.

Thank you Nadia, I am glad the point I am trying to make isn't getting completely lost.

Mira - If it helps, from the perspective of a Mortal with no supernatural awareness (in the Dresdenverse) death seems very final. You are gone when your brain gives up. And we can only speculate and use the knowledge we have to guess at What Comes Next. But as readers, we know differently. Like anyone with awareness of the supernatural in the DV, we know that there are many different afterlife realms (Heaven, the Greek Underworld, Hell, Gehenna etc).

So when the Corpsetaker died (in Luccio's body) the body experienced the scientific process of death. Corpsetaker's spirit left that body and went Between rather than straight to What Comes Next. The difference between being dead and gone. We don't know why or how. And yes, the final dissolution of the Corpsetaker into What Comes Next did come at Mort's hand in Ghost Story. But Death is a process, not an ending. That is clear in our universe, and in Dresden's. You can see in the DV that a person's Spirit/Soul leaves the Mortal/Material plane and goes into the Spirit part of the Nevernever (I define Between as slightly different than the regular Nevernever as it must be much further from Dresden's world than say a place like Faerie, where the rules are mostly the same). Beyond even that, there is the after-after life (Heaven and Hell etc). Which again, does not mean the Corpsetaker stops existing. Far from it, the Corpsetaker now has to deal with being in wherever it went (presumably Hell). Which is not to say it couldn't come back either. Rare, but not impossible. Food for thought.

Cozarkian - I will create another thread to expound on the whole Summer/Bad Guys connections. Yes I had considered that the Corpsetaker must have had some knowledge to stop him/herself passing on fully. I think you are essentially right, the act of using the Death Curse at all might have precluded the Corpsetaker from being able to survive as a spirit in Between. Kemmler may have thrown a Death Curse - believe that there is a theory floating around that his Death Curse was the Tsar Bomba explosion. However, it may also not have been as I believe JB said that the White Council put a magic lock on him (like Eb did to Mavra) so that he couldn't use magic, and they cut him up and burned him. This was how he wasn't able to cheat death again presumably, though of course we don't know that he isn't active from beyond the grave...

[Cozarkian]

Kemmler may have thrown a Death Curse - believe that there is a theory floating around that his Death Curse was the Tsar Bomba explosion.

The other side of that theory is that the Tsar Bomba explosion may have been one of the attempts to kill Kemmler.