Author Topic: Exposure to Magic?  (Read 10707 times)

Offline BobbyWac

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Re: Exposure to Magic?
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2019, 04:03:22 PM »
Also, jumping back to Harry Carpenter, there isn't anything that says he isn't magical. I believe it tends to manifest during puberty and he's only just reaching age 13 as of Skin Game. His talents could manifest during Peace Talks or not at all, or they could have started to manifest and he hasn't told anyone yet. The point is we don't know yet that he isn't a magic user.

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Exposure to Magic?
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2019, 03:08:15 AM »
Quote
Also, jumping back to Harry Carpenter, there isn't anything that says he isn't magical. I believe it tends to manifest during puberty and he's only just reaching age 13 as of Skin Game. His talents could manifest during Peace Talks or not at all, or they could have started to manifest and he hasn't told anyone yet. The point is we don't know yet that he isn't a magic user.

Actually, I'm pretty sure there's a WoJ that Molly is the only one who inherited magic, and that while the other Carpenter children could maybe scrape up enough talent to do something it would be really hard.

Offline g33k

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Re: Exposure to Magic?
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2019, 08:15:44 PM »

I'm gonna go with <handwave> it's magic.

Not "genetics."
Not "in utero exposure."

Magic.

It does tend to follow "Salic Law," passing from mothers to their children; but not via "genetic" inheritance.

It's magic.

Which really just means its a plot-device, used as desired by Jim Butcher and by players of DFRPG / DFA / &c ...  It works by "Salic law" except when it doesn't, and it doesn't whenever JB wants it not to. 
 

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Exposure to Magic?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2019, 12:19:12 AM »
I'm gonna go with <handwave> it's magic.

Not "genetics."
Not "in utero exposure."

Magic.

It does tend to follow "Salic Law," passing from mothers to their children; but not via "genetic" inheritance.

It's magic.

Which really just means its a plot-device, used as desired by Jim Butcher and by players of DFRPG / DFA / &c ...  It works by "Salic law" except when it doesn't, and it doesn't whenever JB wants it not to.
Well, that's a boring way to look at it.

Might as well say, "Why does Nicodemus want the grail? It's not "character motivation." It's not "for a plan." It's because Jim needs an antagonist."
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Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Exposure to Magic?
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2019, 12:16:08 PM »
Quote
I'm gonna go with <handwave> it's magic.

Not "genetics."
Not "in utero exposure."

Magic.

It does tend to follow "Salic Law," passing from mothers to their children; but not via "genetic" inheritance.

It's magic.

Which really just means its a plot-device, used as desired by Jim Butcher and by players of DFRPG / DFA / &c ...  It works by "Salic law" except when it doesn't, and it doesn't whenever JB wants it not to. 

I'm going to assume that Jim is a better author than this implies. Worldbuilding is essential to the kind of story Jim is telling, and a big part of it is having consistent rules, rather than simply doing things because of plot convenience. Just because characters don't know all the rules (and so can't tell us) doesn't change the fact that the rules exist.

Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Exposure to Magic?
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2019, 02:54:10 PM »
I don't think the above implied JB is a bad author at all. Storytelling is more important than world building, so an author needs to be able to break the rules. Assume an author builds a world that is based on a particular ruleset (like Salic law) but needs an exception for three different characters. Unfortunately, the author can't think of an exception that would govern each case and using three different exceptions would undermine the ruleset and raise questions as to why characters "A, who fits exception 1," "B and C, who fit exception 2," and "D, who fits exception 3" still follow the general rule. In such a situation, it is better for the author to just handwave the exception and focus on the story.

That's kind of what we have here. In general, magic is passed down in the DV in a certain way, but if JB needs a certain character to have magic despite not following the traditional rule, he doesn't need to dedicate time to craft a narrowly-tailored exception and explain the exception in text. It's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the fact the character doesn't follow the rule and let the readers come up with their own explanations as to why the particular character is special.

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Exposure to Magic?
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2019, 03:13:05 PM »
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I don't think the above implied JB is a bad author at all. Storytelling is more important than world building, so an author needs to be able to break the rules. Assume an author builds a world that is based on a particular ruleset (like Salic law) but needs an exception for three different characters. Unfortunately, the author can't think of an exception that would govern each case and using three different exceptions would undermine the ruleset and raise questions as to why characters "A, who fits exception 1," "B and C, who fit exception 2," and "D, who fits exception 3" still follow the general rule. In such a situation, it is better for the author to just handwave the exception and focus on the story.

It's not the need for occasional exceptions that I consider to be the issue, it's the contention that "Salic law" is a plot device rather than a piece of worldbuilding. As I recall, there was no reason to include the "Salic law" thing in White Night if it was inconsistent with what we've seen, because it served no purpose except as a piece of worldbuilding. If it was going to be a problem, then Jim could have just said that magical ability was usually inherited, as was established in Proven Guilty.

Therefore, I believe that:
A) As a piece of worldbuilding, the essentials of it are true.
B) Apparent exceptions are because Harry does not understand the nuances of it or does not know the whole story of what's going on.
C) Jim does understand the nuances and does know the whole story, so any apparent exceptions almost certainly have an in-universe explanation.

It's like the Darkhallow thing, really. Harry gives us an explanation of how it works, and we have a WoJ on how it works, and these are partially contradictory. This is not because Jim forgot what he said about the Darkhallow when he was talking about it later, it's because Harry didn't understand everything.