Exposure to Magic?

[nadia.skylark]

So I've been trying to figure out how magic is passed down, because if it's only passed down from mother to child, then Harry shouldn't have magic, and I think I've come up with something:

There are two parts to inheriting the ability to use magic: genetics and exposure to magic in the womb.

You can get the genetic component from either parent.

You also need to be exposed to some degree of magic while in the womb. This is significantly easier if your mother is a magic user, because there is always some magic circulating through magic users even when they're not casting spells (based on the fact that wizards still hex things even when not using magic).

It's significantly harder to be sufficiently exposed to magic if your mother is not a magic user, because it requires that your mother be around multiple fairly powerful magic workings while pregnant with you. This explains why magic appears to normally be inherited from the mother, especially with minor practitioners.

This also explains why Molly inherited magic from Charity but none of her other siblings did: Charity wasn't practicing magic while pregnant with her, but she hadn't stopped long enough for magic to stop circulating through her yet. (After all, if it were just genetic, then Charity abandoning magic would have no effect).

It also explains Margaret--her mom wasn't magic, but was hanging around Ebenezer (since she was married to him).

In addition, it explains both why Maggie might have magic and why it would be influenced by her mother's vampirism--she inherited strong magical genetics from Harry, and was exposed to rampire energies rather than mortal magic while in the womb.

[peregrine]

That's more or less my take on it.  In Utero exposure to magic means that it's more likely to come from the mother, but a suitably strong and/or present magical father would do it as well.

I don't think it's something we'll see from Maggie though.  I have a feeling it applies only to human magic.  Living with Michael as Charity did, if, for example, faith magic was relevant, all their kids would have it.

[Slowpool]

  From what Jim has said, magic isn't only passed down from mother to child- that's just how it usually happens.  It can happen from father to child- and it can even show up with no known magical heritage.  It's just less common.

  And you're right on the money about the Carpenter kids- Jim's stated that Charity had still been practicing fairly recently when Molly was conceived, and it wasn't until her talents had started to atrophy that the rest of the squad came along.  There's something like a 25%ish chance that they could each have inherited the genetic disposition to work magic, but they'd have to dig for it.

[Mr. Death]

Yeah, this is more or less the closest explanation we've been able to cobble together from the books and what Jim's said.

[Kindler]

Can't really think of anything that would disprove this. Though I'd argue that it's not necessarily required for womb exposure, just that it produces a powered kid more consistently. See Luccio's remarks about checking in on her descendants to see if any of them have talents—it's possible, just not as likely. I'm also reasonably sure that the Council would be able to track new talents much more efficiently if this was the case. 

[nadia.skylark]

Though I'd argue that it's not necessarily required for womb exposure, just that it produces a powered kid more consistently. See Luccio's remarks about checking in on her descendants to see if any of them have talents—it's possible, just not as likely. I'm also reasonably sure that the Council would be able to track new talents much more efficiently if this was the case.

There might also be other kinds of exposure that work less reliably--living on a Ley line, having lots of faeries around, stuff like that.

[Bacchus]

       Ive just looked into the bare basics on how genetics work for skin and hair color because of interesting things on how my daughter and nephew turned out and learned that how we understand genetics is so oversimplified as to be functionally incorrect.
     It is all way more complex than simple dominant and recessive stuff for most traits is my understanding

          Magic would be an order of magnitude more complex than hair color i would think.
small examples would be the weird traits that wizards have (healing, mage sight, more random powers) would likely be hard-coded somewhere in all that junk DNA that we don't know what it does yet. i would think this would all take a rather large chunk of DNA for all the different things.
              maybe everyone has that stuff but the right genetic match  makes it all become dominant to various degrees.
could be exceptionally powerful magic during first trimester cause birth defects that have a small chance at triggering this dna, remember the level of mages is in single digits per country
or arn't all humans really females at first  anyway and males are made by the Y chromosome modifying bits as we develop,
and all the weird stuff about Maternal DNA lines, maybe that dudes female line ancestor from thousands of years ago had power and the dna has silently been passed along.
I'm sorry if parts of this are wrong.
 I'm not an expert

[morriswalters]

How magic is conveyed to progeny is fairly well explained by the text of the books.  Exposure to magic or a wizards aura isn't a required condition if you wish to account for the existence of warlocks.  Jim is giving a very brief look at the war between nature and nurture.  How much of what you are is because of your genes or your upbringing.

In terms of why magic would atrophy if not used, Jim based this on fairly well understood science.  Your muscles  maintain their tone because you use them.  It's why astronauts exercise on the ISS.

[nadia.skylark]

How magic is conveyed to progeny is fairly well explained by the text of the books.

It isn't, really. The books say that magic is passed on through the maternal line, and then goes and has Harry's mom get her magic from her father. Jim has also said that none of Charity's children besides Molly inherited magic because she had given it up, but choosing not to use magic should not alter your genetic structure!

[morriswalters]

It isn't, really. The books say that magic is passed on through the maternal line, and then goes and has Harry's mom get her magic from her father. Jim has also said that none of Charity's children besides Molly inherited magic because she had given it up, but choosing not to use magic should not alter your genetic structure!

Certainly there is plenty of science that says external forces can change or damage genetic expression.  Fetal Alcohol Syndrome for one. It isn't unreasonable in this fictional context to suppose the aura that a mother extrudes as a magic user could cause changes in genetic expression for an unborn child.  If you want some fact based type of thing you could posit that a wizards aura may turn on some type of chemistry that turns a gene on or off.  How deep a level of detail do you require?

[toodeep]

I don't think it's something we'll see from Maggie though.  I have a feeling it applies only to human magic.  Living with Michael as Charity did, if, for example, faith magic was relevant, all their kids would have it.

It may be true that the half vampire nature of the mother may not have a "magical" effect on Maggie because it is nonmortal (more on that later), but don't forget the magical tattoos on Susan.  Every time those activated there may have been significant mortal magic active on Susan, plus we don't know what other exposures Susan might have experienced while pregnant - e.g. staying inside warded homes or sanctuaries, etc. that might influence the standing magic level the fetus was exposed to.

As to the nonmortal magic on Susan when Maggie was conceived.... It has always struck me that a red half-vampire is very similar to a white court vampire.  Just because the most common way for red court hunger to transfer itself is through a feeding, doesn't mean it is the only way.  Imagine the horror Harry will half to deal with if as she goes through puberty Maggie becomes the only red court half vampire in existence?  Effectively an innocent with free will, but also an immortal threat to recreate a court her own father destroyed.  (That would be awesome, but I suspect it is impossible because the hunger spirit that may have been attached to her should have been destroyed by the blood line curse too)

[nadia.skylark]

It may be true that the half vampire nature of the mother may not have a "magical" effect on Maggie because it is nonmortal (more on that later), but don't forget the magical tattoos on Susan.  Every time those activated there may have been significant mortal magic active on Susan, plus we don't know what other exposures Susan might have experienced while pregnant - e.g. staying inside warded homes or sanctuaries, etc. that might influence the standing magic level the fetus was exposed to.

True. We know that if Maggie has magic, her mother being half-vampire will influence it because there's a WoJ saying so.

[DonBugen]

I think that it's fairly clear that genes + magic exposure =/= magic talent. WOJ is that Molly is the only Carpenter kid with talent.  Little Harry Carpenter had the genes and had magic exposure while in the womb.

[Mr. Death]

I think that it's fairly clear that genes + magic exposure =/= magic talent. WOJ is that Molly is the only Carpenter kid with talent.  Little Harry Carpenter had the genes and had magic exposure while in the womb.

Their level of exposure is very different. Little Harry being exposed to magic once literally the night he was born -- i.e., when he's more or less fully developed -- is not nearly the same thing as Molly being exposed to it regularly throughout pregnancy from conception through early development.

[nadia.skylark]

Their level of exposure is very different. Little Harry being exposed to magic once literally the night he was born -- i.e., when he's more or less fully developed -- is not nearly the same thing as Molly being exposed to it regularly throughout pregnancy from conception through early development.

This.