The Arthurian Connection

[Yuillegan]

There are many links the the Arthurian myths in the Dresden Files, and not merely the traditional myths but the many retellings and adaptations.  I am just throwing thoughts out of my head to work them out here - and will clean this up soon.

There are several archetypes/roles in the Arthurian Legend:

The Rightful King - Arthur. In Dresdenverse, this would be a likely someone like Michael, though Arthur is probably more fallible. Interestingly, as the story became more Christianized the idea that Arthur became "Rightful" rather like God/Jesus being the true King. This is important. Marcone is also a candidate - though that would be quite dark.
The Wizard/Druid - Merlin. Clearly this is Harry, he is not meant to rule but to be a part of events. Now obviously there is/was an "original" Merlin who began the White Council and changed the world, and excluding Time Travel and working with the fact that he is dead, Harry Dresden is clearly being lined up for this role.
The Enemy - Morgan(a) Le Fay. Again, clearly already exists/ed in DV but assuming she is dead the current candidates are not so easy. A few candidates stand out: Elaine (assuming she is evil), Kemmler (bear with me - the evil Wizard behind everything), an unknown threat.
The Weapon - Mordred. His whole purpose is to be the weapon that kills the rightful king. Nothing like the power of patricide. Harry could fit this role, as he has often been described as a weapon and used as such. Also possibly Marcone, though he feels a bit old for the role.  However, more likely this will be something out of left field - maybe like a future apprentice of Harry's/child (for a guy who doesn't get much, he sure seems to keep having kids!)
The Knights of the Round Table - Clearly the Knights of the Cross fulfill this role.

Nimue, the Lady of the Lake is a central and important figure. She is Lancelot's fairy godmother. She is notable for giving Arthur Excalibur and giving Lancelot the Holy Grail. She refused to give Merlin all her love until he taught her all his secrets, and then she locked him away (originally either beneath a stone or in a hawthorn tree - pay attention, in DV Dresden gets stung with a hawthorn dart during Cold Days and there are several significant stones (Stone Table, Stone Statues etc). In other versions it is an invisible tower or a cave (Demonreach - and yes I know Jim says it isn't Merlin in the crystal, doesn't mean he isn't down in there). Here is where it get interesting! The goddess Diana (Artemis) is Nimue (also known as Vivenne)'s godmother and Nimue's father is...the god Dionysus (Bacchus)! Interestingly, the Lake she is associated with is sometimes considered the Lake of Diana in Sicily - where Queen Diana (who was worshiped as a goddess) was murdered. This is where Lancelot du Lac (of the Lake) was raised. In some versions - Morgan Le Fay is Nimue too residing in a town named Ninniane (one of the names of the Lady of the Lake). In the Hellboy comics, Nimue was locked away and arises to supplant Hecate as Queen of the Witches. She is the Queen of Blood and takes up the mantle of the Morrigan and leads an army of legendary and folkloric beings. In the 80s novel "The Mists of Avalon" the Lady of the Lake and Merlin are offices in the pagan heirachy, Merlin is a young druid and Lady of the Lake is the ruling priestess of Avalon. Multiple characters hold the mantle of Lady of the Lake including Morgan Le Fay, Vivienne, Niniane and Nimue.

In Dresdenverse who is the Lady of the Lake? - Leanansidhe seems a bit on the nose, so it leaves a few options to who the original was. Mab (when she was Lady) is possible, she would have been quite young as that would have predated Hasting by several hundred years. It is possible that Morgan Le Fay literally held the Mantle of the Lady of the Lake (whatever that mantle actually is) and either gave it up or died - and so have several other beings. Perhaps the mantle is one of the six queens, perhaps something else. Perhaps Nemesis the Greek Goddess is "Nemesis" and Hecate is the six Queens of Faerie and everything is just them having a shit fight...Nemesis is "Outsider Nemesis" is Nimue, uniting the formor and intends to supplant Hecate, who are the Queens of Faerie.

Other interesting connections

Elaine Mallory - Interestingly close to the Summer Court, shares a name with Thomas Malory (who wrote Le Morte d'Arthur - which the myth of King Arthur is based), candidate for being Kumori. Could she be the Morgan Le Fay archetype? Interestingly, as she was Arthur's half sister and also the mother of his bastard son and killer Mordred, considering my theory that Harry and Elaine are half sisters her candidacy gets stronger. Also is the name of the DAUGHTER of the Fisher King. The WOUNDED KING'S name is Pellehan (named Pellam of Listeneise) in Malory's Arthur, the Fisher King is Pelles. Pelles tricks Lancelot into sleeping with his daughter Elaine, in order to sire Galahad (the perfect Knight). WTF!!

John Marcone - Not much known, pretty powerful and successful person - made more headway in someways than Harry ever has (all the more significant because he is vanilla). Could have been an excellent Monarch in ages past.

Ramirez - Feels like a Gawain (always a brotherly role with Arthur)
Butters - Probably Sir Gareth the Lovely Hands - knight of the kitchen.
Thomas - Lancelot. Hands down. Definitely mister steal your girl.

Who is the Fisher King - the heart of Western Civilisation? This is so significant I am not sure what even to say...In some versions this King lives in a castle with his son (but they are both the Fisher King - very Father and the Son) relying on the Grail for sustenance. He bleeds from a wound in his thigh (this is very Jesus). In some versions, the wound was caused by the Spear of Longinus. In others, the Spear is used by Galahad to heal him. In Joseph of Arimathea (the man who caught the blood in the Cup making it the Holy Grail) the "Rich Fisher" is called Bron (Bran is sometimes an original spelling). Bran the Blessed in Celtic Mythology has a cauldron that can resurrect the dead. Very interesting considering the Saviour returns to life. King Arthur actually retrieves that Cauldron in one story.

Also what is the weird connections between Christianity, Greek Mythology, Irish Mythology and Arthurian legend? Strongly exists in the real world, and in DV seems even more connected. Obviously all part of Western Culture the past few millennia but still. Greek Gods connected to fae, connected to Wizards and Druids, connected the Grails and Christ, connected to Tuatha de Danaan. It just goes round like a pretzel!

Wow this really got away from me. I am gonna tidy this up.

[Avernite]

I am not sure I caught the entire story, though it's an interesting matching game.

One thing that I did notice was your Diana (Demeter) note, which I disagree with. Diana is usually equated with Artemis, not Demeter. Diana is a goddess associated with the hunt, animals, and light - an excellent candidate (as fairy godmother) for someone in Summer, in other words.

[Yuillegan]

Right you are Avernite - I have corrected it to say Artemis. No idea why I put Demeter...perhaps alliteration. The Summer connection is interesting...I will muse on that. I have always wondered how other Deities in the Greco-Roman pantheon factored in against Hecate. In most traditions Hecate is the daughter of Atlas (the Titan) and is nowhere near as powerful (might wise) as Hades or Zeus. Not sure how she would compare to Artemis but I imagine similarly ranked. Which is confusing considering the enormous might of all six Queens of Faerie. Though I admit in some versions Hecate had influence over the Underworld, Sea and Sky as a gift for helping the Olympians during the Titanomachy (Titan war).  Hades seems only to rank in at about Mab's level...maybe higher, maybe not (he seems to have less influence in this age, by his own admission). I seem to remember an old WAG about Hecate being the one who split herself, and that perhaps a number of gods (whose influence in the world was waning) poured much of their power into the Queens.

Yeah it is a bit of a mess - but there are some strong connections, especially the Elaine one that really tells me I am close to whatever Jim's plan for her is.

[Bad Alias]

Also what is the weird connections between Christianity, Greek Mythology, Irish Mythology and Arthurian legend? Strongly exists in the real world, and in DV seems even more connected. Obviously all part of Western Culture the past few millennia but still. Greek Gods connected to fae, connected to Wizards and Druids, connected the Grails and Christ, connected to Tuatha de Danaan. It just goes round like a pretzel!

I think Jim's use can mostly be explained by the fact that Christianity, Greek Mythology, and British Mythology/Legends are all pretty well known in America, and therefore either known or easily learned by Jim. (Norse Mythology too). Of all those, the one I'd assume is least well known would be Celtic Mythology. Also, English language translations and treatments of all of these are widely available. Norse and British beliefs, at some point, are believed to have taken a lot from Christianity, so it shouldn't be surprising if the same themes pop up a lot. I've also read that a lot of folk beliefs were altered by Christians as they were passed down through Christians. (The main example I can recall is faeries going from maybe gods to helpful household spirits to mischievous to evil beings and/or demons).

Most non-English mythos are generally much less well known in America, so it's less likely for Jim to be familiar with them. He has also stated he isn't comfortable bringing in belief systems he doesn't know well enough to handle with respect.

In sum, Jim is using and intertwining these mythos because he can do so ably, and these mythos have a lot of real world intertwining because the practitioners had a lot of intertwining as well. I imagine none of this is very helpful for analysis purposes.

[Yuillegan]

Bad Alias that's a good insight into his inspiration, so thank you for that.

Sort of the other way round though - Christianity when it traveled across the sea borrowed and converted stories from English and Norse mythology, though of course it did end up going both ways in the end.

Which I totally respect Jim for doing btw (not using religion he isn't comfortable handling). But I think he could also get educated too. There is a wide world of information and honestly so many people from various faiths that would be happy to walk you through. He has already touched on Rakasha Raja - and in all honesty I wouldn't mind finding out what else goes on in the rest of Dresden's Earth. There are more places than Chicago, let alone America. Not everything significant would happen there - it just doesn't add up.

But I was more getting at the fact that from a philosophical and historical point of view, it is highly interesting the connections that exist. Jim has clearly done his homework so I am sure he has something very special that will link them together - and I think that bears further reflection and deliberation on. I cannot wait till we get to the deep stuff and pull the camera out further.

[Avernite]

Right you are Avernite - I have corrected it to say Artemis. No idea why I put Demeter...perhaps alliteration. The Summer connection is interesting...I will muse on that. I have always wondered how other Deities in the Greco-Roman pantheon factored in against Hecate. In most traditions Hecate is the daughter of Atlas (the Titan) and is nowhere near as powerful (might wise) as Hades or Zeus. Not sure how she would compare to Artemis but I imagine similarly ranked. Which is confusing considering the enormous might of all six Queens of Faerie. Though I admit in some versions Hecate had influence over the Underworld, Sea and Sky as a gift for helping the Olympians during the Titanomachy (Titan war).  Hades seems only to rank in at about Mab's level...maybe higher, maybe not (he seems to have less influence in this age, by his own admission). I seem to remember an old WAG about Hecate being the one who split herself, and that perhaps a number of gods (whose influence in the world was waning) poured much of their power into the Queens.

Yeah it is a bit of a mess - but there are some strong connections, especially the Elaine one that really tells me I am close to whatever Jim's plan for her is.

Well, Faerie supposedly got its TRUE power from the blood spilled on the Stone Table, possibly before the split between Summer and Winter. So Hecate's initial power level is slightly unimportant.

That said, with Gaia, Demeter and Artemis, Greek mythology had 3 goddesses who could be pretty decent fits for the entire Summer side. Add in Hera (vengeful but protectress of the home/marriage as Queen) and Athena (recruiter of heroes for the Lady) for Winter and the whole Faerie hierarchy with Hecate as Mother Winter could be formed by a Greek alliance.

[Bad Alias]

Sort of the other way round though - Christianity when it traveled across the sea borrowed and converted stories from English and Norse mythology, though of course it did end up going both ways in the end.

... He has already touched on Rakasha Raja - and in all honesty I wouldn't mind finding out what else goes on in the rest of Dresden's Earth. There are more places than Chicago, let alone America. Not everything significant would happen there - it just doesn't add up.

Six of one, a half a dozen of the other. (And for the English and Norse mythology, a lot of what we have to go on is just what some scholars think happened).

A lot of significant things have happened outside of Chicago and America. We just didn't see them because Harry wasn't there. (Or he was and it was Mexico). I'd like to see more of Dresden's world and other belief systems worked in, but based on what Jim said about the amount of research he would have to do to "get it right," I don't expect to see it. There'll probably be things like Shiro mentioning the Jade Court, the Rakasha, the bird people from Changes, the Japanese thing from the Butters story, but I'm not expecting any sort of deep dive.