All black magic IS Nemesis

[groinkick]

Leah stated that it was Nemesis who altered Victor Sells, and the FBI agents.  But wasn't that just black magic?  Doesn't a wizard go insane as they use enough of it?  The Black Staff pulls it from the wizard when casting as it did with Eb.  Harry was exposed to it just as the FBI agents were when he used the wolf belt. 

Here is my guess.  Just as love is the stuff of Creation, I'm thinking that dark magic is the stuff of hate or Anti-creation, Nemesis.  Just as the Archangel's have used their Knights as a trumpet (Murphy in Changes), Nemesis can speak to, or through anyone who's been contaminated.  It's why Leah, and the other Sidhe had to be infected.  They don't use mortal wizard magic, and cannot become contaminated that way.  Wizards on the other hand can pull it within themselves, or transfer it to objects like the Hexen Wolf belts.  I'm thinking that Leah attempted to access the power of the blade, and that's when it contaminated her. 

What I'm curious about is why mortals seem longer to go dark side from using dark magic vs how easily the Sidhe fall once exposed to it's influence.

[Bad Alias]

I don't remember Lea saying that, but I do remember Lily saying it. Did Lea say it too?

I agree with black magic and it's corrupting influence is in some way related to Outside, but I'm not convinced it is Nemesis. We also don't know what it takes for Nemesis to infect a fairy. All we know is that it happened pretty quickly with Cat Sith.

[Avernite]

I don't remember Lea saying that, but I do remember Lily saying it. Did Lea say it too?

I agree with black magic and it's corrupting influence is in some way related to Outside, but I'm not convinced it is Nemesis. We also don't know what it takes for Nemesis to infect a fairy. All we know is that it happened pretty quickly with Cat Sith.

To be fair Sith was also the worst infection in terms of control, and the strongest (Lea did not get mindbroken when she took the action to get rid of her infection, after all).

[Mira]

To be fair Sith was also the worst infection in terms of control, and the strongest (Lea did not get mindbroken when she took the action to get rid of her infection, after all).

  Or it's their attitude that makes them vulnerable to the infection.

[groinkick]

I agree with black magic and it's corrupting influence is in some way related to Outside, but I'm not convinced it is Nemesis.

I'm leaning towards this:  by using black magic, the wizard is contaminating themselves with Nemesis's essence.  The wizard as far as we can tell cannot remove any taint they acquire from the use of black magic, it's permanent.  Once they go insane, that's it, no going back.  Jim said Nemesis isn't some all powerful thing when asked about it, and Archangel infection.  I don't know if Nemesis is really a sentient Being.  I think it's more like a contamination that turns you toward evil.

The main argument against it is that Leah didn't want Harry to speak It's name for fear it would hear him.  So I find it somewhat confusing.  I am fairly certain though that Harry Dresden, and any other wizard who's used black magic does have some of Nemesis inside themselves.  It just may be that unless they have fully embraced it, it's not in control of them the way Leah, and others seemed to be.

[Bad Alias]

I'm not so sure that there is a black magic point of no return. The whole point of the Knights of the Cross is that no one is beyond redemption. That's a pretty strong theme of the books, too. It's basically Harry's entire character arc. On the other hand, I think that actions have consequences is also a big theme of the books.

I guess I'm saying that maybe the taint can't be removed, but it can be overcome. Choice builds character, character determines choice. We can substitute nature for character here. If a practitioner acts against the taint enough, that becomes their nature. If the practitioner acts with the taint enough, that becomes their nature. But a mortal has free will, which is the ability to act against their nature. In the Warrior, Uriel says something about how mortals almost always act in conformity with their nature, so it is unlikely that someone would change their nature.

[Salusen]

I don't know if Nemesis is really a sentient Being.  I think it's more like a contamination that turns you toward evil.

The main argument against it is that Leah didn't want Harry to speak It's name for fear it would hear him.  So I find it somewhat confusing.  I am fairly certain though that Harry Dresden, and any other wizard who's used black magic does have some of Nemesis inside themselves.  It just may be that unless they have fully embraced it, it's not in control of them the way Leah, and others seemed to be.

I think I remember the Cat Sith's voice changing after getting infected, and Nemesis spoke to Harry as Cat Sith. I think Nemesis is a sentient being, but that it uses mind control. The "infection" is actually a kind of doorway into the mind of the victim, allowing Nemesis to manifest through them (behavior, language, magic capability, etc.)


But wait.. if we keep talking about Nemesis like this, won't we attract its attention?

[Griffyn612]

But wait.. if we keep talking about Nemesis like this, won't we attract its attention?

Only if Butcher used a name actually associated with the Enemy.  For all we know, Nemesis is a Council-approved nickname for Blorgadorp, Master of Riblars and Grorpins.

[peregrine]

The idea that you can only do magic for things you truly believe are right, and that by doing evil things with magic because you truly believe it's right makes it easier to do more evil things again (because you've convinced yourself it's right) doesn't really need Nemesis or other magical foundations behind it, just normal psychology.

[Mira]

The idea that you can only do magic for things you truly believe are right, and that by doing evil things with magic because you truly believe it's right makes it easier to do more evil things again (because you've convinced yourself it's right) doesn't really need Nemesis or other magical foundations behind it, just normal psychology.

Yeah, that sort of fits with the Denarian point of view and with Cowl's point of view...  It calls up all kinds of questions about morality.  As in what makes something evil and something else not?  Sometimes it amounts to point of view.

[peregrine]

The fact that some people think evil is good doesn't actually make it good though.  They just think it is.

[groinkick]

The idea that you can only do magic for things you truly believe are right, and that by doing evil things with magic because you truly believe it's right makes it easier to do more evil things again (because you've convinced yourself it's right) doesn't really need Nemesis or other magical foundations behind it, just normal psychology.

In the Dresden Files magic alters you by the way it's used.  It's not just psychology...  Also just by putting the Hexenwolf belt on Harry was touched by darkness.  He felt amazing by just putting it on, and wanted to kill people with absolute savagery.  That's not psychology, but dark magic or as I theorize, anti-creation, Nemesis.

As in what makes something evil and something else not?  Sometimes it amounts to point of view.

Only in a materialistic universe, which the Dresdenverse is not.

[exartiem]

I think the difference between N-fecting mortals and fae is because mortals USE magic while fae ARE magic.

With the fae, it's like dropping black ink into a bottle of water.  It spreads easily by changing one small part of their nature and making them think it's a power boost. 

But with humans, the N-fection has to work through their subconscious and change their morals subtly.