Christmas Eve from JB's Twitter (no news, just fun)

[morriswalters]

I don't evaluate WOJ's I just post them.  There isn't anything of note in Christmas Eve that would pin down who lives or dies.  I personally am of the opinion that the story served two purposes.  A gift to his fans for fun and a chance for JB to troll all of us while getting us all excited.  Quite frankly I like the idea of both.  Silence is boring.

[Arjan]

There is a huge spoiler. Harry survived. 

[wardenferry419]

I didn't realize there is a thread here (I've posted in a thread with the same opening in the DF books section)

Someone please could remind me how old would Maggie be at the Christmas' Eve story?

I loved this story even when I am now really worried about PT. Thanks Jim!

MY guess would be about 12.  Though, it is on very loose math.

[wardenferry419]

Ok, I will spoil the story, so don't read this if you haven't read it.

Murphy is alive. Why I know that? Because in the story there is no mention of Mister. And a Christmas story with a kid, a dog and Santa Claus would have welcome a cat. But Mister is not there. So where is he? I see two options. He is dead or he is with Murphy at her home. I refuse to consider option 1, so Murphy is alive, taking care of Mister.

Good catch, Dina!

[Mira]

Good catch, Dina!

Then again, Harry is spending Christmas at Michael's place with his family..  Not unusual to visit with
your dog, but not your cat..  Harry never took Mister with him visiting before. Even when he stayed at Michael's house for days or weeks when wounded, Mister stayed at home. So why would he bring him for a holiday stay?  I don't think much can be read any significance in Mister's absence as confirming or not Murphy's survival in Peace Talks.

She has never been shown to be as "bull headed" as you're assuming she must be.

No?  Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because  she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason? 

[Arjan]

Then again, Harry is spending Christmas at Michael's place with his family..  Not unusual to visit with
your dog, but not your cat..  Harry never took Mister with him visiting before. Even when he stayed at Michael's house for days or weeks when wounded, Mister stayed at home. So why would he bring him for a holiday stay?  I don't think much can be read any significance in Mister's absence as confirming or not Murphy's survival in Peace Talks.No?  Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because  she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?

That is quite unfair. Harry did not give advice for obvious reasons and Karen is no dummy, she had at least some idea why Harry was keeping secrets and she followed his example. She had to sort it out in her own.

And so she did. She could have spoiled things in all kind of ways if she had not followed Harry’s example without asking questions. She showed a lot of trust actually something Butters lacked.

[Mr. Death]

No?  Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because  she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?

We've been over this a hundred times, and that had nothing to do with her being "bull headed" or not listening to reason.

[Mira]

We've been over this a hundred times, and that had nothing to do with her being "bull headed" or not listening to reason.

No?  But saying the Sword shouldn't be used, then hiding it and using for the reasons she said it
shouldn't be used sort of qualifies....  Doing because she loves Harry sort of makes it okay, but shows bad judgement...   So what makes you think that this time around with everything on the
line like is sounds like it's going to, she is just going to say home and nurse her wounds?  Especially if Harry is in grave danger, which sounds like he is going to be, if she can, she will be at his side...

But for the record, I said that she was one of three possible to die that would affect Harry in terms of
grief..  Michael would be a forth, but we know from the story he didn't die..  The only reason he hasn't gone completely off the rails like he did after Susan was half turned and left, is little Maggie.  Yes, the thousands hurt and dead that he feels personally responsible for in typical Harry fashion accounts for some of it, but the break down of weeping says someone close died...  Very close, that puts Murphy on the list, unless you no longer think she is close to Harry?  Eb is on that list, Thomas is on that list, that is the first tier, the vision/flashback of blood on asphalt relates to one of these loved ones in my opinion verses a general slaughter.. Though is sounds like there was a lot of that.

That is quite unfair. Harry did not give advice for obvious reasons and Karen is no dummy, she had at least some idea why Harry was keeping secrets and she followed his example. She had to sort it out in her own

But she didn't, she went against her own advice...  Apples and oranges as far as the keeping secrets example goes.. Harry's main excuse and it has proved to be a poor one is he wants to spare his friends... Not exactly clear why Murphy thought hiding the Sword would spare anyone..  She proclaimed she wasn't a Knight beyond that one night, had no interest in being a Knight, claimed
bringing it on that mission would put it in danger...  Hiding it didn't change any of those facts... Kind
of like a dieter sneaking food or a alcoholic drinking secretly, it doesn't change the fact that food was eaten or there had been a fall from the wagon..... 

The excuse for bringing the Sword has been Murphy's emotional feelings for Harry... So I ask you this, do you really think she'll stay home if she believes she can help Harry even if she isn't a hundred percent?  But set that aside, say she is a hundred percent, if she goes out to face the danger, she could be killed, the same goes for Thomas or Eb...  Any of those three would leave a
hell of a hole in Harry's heart..

[morriswalters]

Ah, but since when did something like a bum knee stop Murphy when Harry and mankind is on the line?  If things get bad enough, and it looks like they will, someone will have to lock her up in a cell, tie her down and throw away the keys... Because you know how bull headed she can be, and if she thinks she can make a difference no matter how small or illogical her thought process, she will be
there.  If she is, and if she gets killed in the process, the impact will be very hard on Harry.

Murphy isn't Superwoman and any number of things are hard on Harry.  The Timeline is fairly explicit.  She is injured(ACL) in February and Peace Talks happens in June or shortly thereafter.  Four months.  There is bullheaded and there is stupid.  But of course she could strap her P90 to her cast and totter to the scene of the action in her wheelchair.

What I've been doing is looking at Chicago on Google Earth, and have decided that if I were in Chicago when the peace talks occur I would avoid the Burnham Harbor area at all costs.

You have the Shedd Aquarium, the Field Museum, Soldier Field, the Alder Planetarium, Burnham harbor, Lakeshore Center, South Beach and miscellaneous other family venues that might be packed on a sunny day in June.  It strikes me as a tens of thousands killed and injured place.

edit.
I have also had a vision where JB channels the Kurt Russel version of the Gunfight at the OK Corral.  That precise moment when Doc Holliday winks and things go to hell.

[Arjan]

No?  But saying the Sword shouldn't be used, then hiding it and using for the reasons she said it
shouldn't be used sort of qualifies....  Doing because she loves Harry sort of makes it okay, but shows bad judgement...   So what makes you think that this time around with everything on the
line like is sounds like it's going to, she is just going to say home and nurse her wounds?  Especially if Harry is in grave danger, which sounds like he is going to be, if she can, she will be at his side...

But for the record, I said that she was one of three possible to die that would affect Harry in terms of
grief..  Michael would be a forth, but we know from the story he didn't die..  The only reason he hasn't gone completely off the rails like he did after Susan was half turned and left, is little Maggie.  Yes, the thousands hurt and dead that he feels personally responsible for in typical Harry fashion accounts for some of it, but the break down of weeping says someone close died...  Very close, that puts Murphy on the list, unless you no longer think she is close to Harry?  Eb is on that list, Thomas is on that list, that is the first tier, the vision/flashback of blood on asphalt relates to one of these loved ones in my opinion verses a general slaughter.. Though is sounds like there was a lot of that. But she didn't, she went against her own advice...  Apples and oranges as far as the keeping secrets example goes.. Harry's main excuse and it has proved to be a poor one is he wants to spare his friends... Not exactly clear why Murphy thought hiding the Sword would spare anyone..  She proclaimed she wasn't a Knight beyond that one night, had no interest in being a Knight, claimed
bringing it on that mission would put it in danger...  Hiding it didn't change any of those facts... Kind
of like a dieter sneaking food or a alcoholic drinking secretly, it doesn't change the fact that food was eaten or there had been a fall from the wagon..... 

Skin game was different. The secrecy was because Anduriel listened to everything. Karen understood when Harry told her that it was not to protect her but himself and she followed Harry's unspoken advise. References to earlier cases where Harry kept secrets to protect other people are not to the point.

That is why Murphy had to solve everything on her own and that is why comments about her not taking advise are unfair. She had taken Harry's advise.

The excuse for bringing the Sword has been Murphy's emotional feelings for Harry... So I ask you this, do you really think she'll stay home if she believes she can help Harry even if she isn't a hundred percent?  But set that aside, say she is a hundred percent, if she goes out to face the danger, she could be killed, the same goes for Thomas or Eb...  Any of those three would leave a
hell of a hole in Harry's heart..

She brought the sword to have the option available which is not wrong. She either could find a situation where she could use it or could give it to someone if the occasion demanded it. The sword had to be there she just did not know what to do with it.

The sword had to be there. Her emotions colored how she used it but she had no real choice at that moment. We have discussed this endlessly but the alternative was a dead Harry or Waldo, she saved a life and the sword was fixable.

She was there because Harry asked her. Harry is not going to ask her for peace talks after what happened in Skin Game so the whole question is moot.

[Mira]

She brought the sword to have the option available which is not wrong. She either could find a situation where she could use it or could give it to someone if the occasion demanded it. The sword had to be there she just did not know what to do with it.

Huh? 

Murphy isn't Superwoman and any number of things are hard on Harry.  The Timeline is fairly explicit.  She is injured(ACL) in February and Peace Talks happens in June or shortly thereafter.  Four months.  There is bullheaded and there is stupid.  But of course she could strap her P90 to her cast and totter to the scene of the action in her wheelchair.

Not out of the question... Even with full knee replacement, or arthroscopic knee surgery  she could be moving very well in four months time...  Maybe not up to hand to hand, but shooting action?  Yup, she could...

The sword had to be there. Her emotions colored how she used it but she had no real choice at that moment. We have discussed this endlessly but the alternative was a dead Harry or Waldo, she saved a life and the sword was fixable.

She didn't really, it was all a ploy...  It was Harry the real appointed custodian that made the right choices at the right time to both get the Sword fixed and choose a Knight.

She was there because Harry asked her. Harry is not going to ask her for peace talks after what happened in Skin Game so the whole question is moot.

That is jumping the gun because we don't know as of yet if Harry will ask her unless you've seen
spoilers the rest of us haven't.

You have the Shedd Aquarium, the Field Museum, Soldier Field, the Alder Planetarium, Burnham harbor, Lakeshore Center, South Beach and miscellaneous other family venues that might be packed on a sunny day in June.  It strikes me as a tens of thousands killed and injured place.

Yup, that is true, and Harry will feel responsible and mourn them, but in my opinion his pain is deeper..

Skin game was different. The secrecy was because Anduriel listened to everything. Karen understood when Harry told her that it was not to protect her but himself and she followed Harry's unspoken advise. References to earlier cases where Harry kept secrets to protect other people are not to the point.

She had no idea about Anduriel or his capabilities...   Because if she did she'd know that she could not keep the fact
that she had the Sword concealed with her..  Fool Harry, yeah, but Nic though Anduriel, no....

[groinkick]

No?  Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because  she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?

Uhhh Harry begging her to back him up on his mission with Nicodemus?  She went because he begged her and brought the Sword because of the Denarian's being involved....  Seem's pretty rational to me.  The only place she screwed up at was when she tried to judge Nicodemus, and under the circumstances, and heat of the moment I think it's pretty understandable.

[morriswalters]

Yup, that is true, and Harry will feel responsible and mourn them, but in my opinion his pain is deeper..

Well it isn't out of the question. But the idea that his allies might die is one thing, but if his true purpose is to defend those who can't defend themselves, the the deaths of thousands is going to hit hard.  Think about the narrative in Christmas Eve.  Harry has his daughter and the core of his "family" with him.  Which would force him to confront the reality all those families who no longer do.

[Arjan]

There is already a buildup. The fomor are kidnapping people and using them on a big scale. The Fomor will be the main antagonists in the new book. Add these two together and you get a potential for a huge number of innocent casualties of the very kind Harry is most likely to try to protect. Harry's closest friend can die of course but this was not what the story was about. It was about huge numbers of innocent victims.

[tacorrific]

Hasn't Jim said somewhere that Mab and Winter are in charge of the security and safety at the peace talks?  That would mean that Harry would also be responsible for keeping things smoothly and dealing with any problems arising.  That could also be why Molly paid for all the expenses of the fallout.  The people killed would not have been part of any agreements and therefore originally left out of any compensations.  But Harry would see that very differently.