Some thoughts on the vampire courts

[kbrizzle]

For purposes of this post, I will only consider the 3 vampire courts we have been introduced to (so not including Jade court). Here are some basic facts we've gleaned from the series so far:

White Court

• Of Etruscan origin (based on court language) - the civilization that lived in the Italian peninsula before the Romans ~3000 years ago, although I suspect the White Court predates even them
• Physically weakest of the 3 courts, closest to humans.
• Feed on human emotions. Their demons are closest to Succubi & exist in a symbiotic relationships with their hosts.
• They are unable to make more of their own except through human reproductive methods.
• The stronger Whamps (such as Lady Cheserina & Lord Skavis - Lord Raith being magically enhanced is not considered) are strong, but at a level where someone like Harry or Morgan could take them out in a straight fight (Remember the scene with Ebenezer & Lara on Demonreach in TC?)

Red Court

• Of South American origin (Mayan?) - Red King is said to be ~4000 years old.
• Physically stronger than Whamps, can put on convincing flesh masks to pass off as humans but are actually bat-like in appearance
• Feed on human blood & seem to have an affinity for blood magic.
• They are able to make more of their own:not as easily as Blamps but more easily than Whamps through a process of transferring their own blood to the intended
• The stronger Ramps (like the LoONs) are at a level with Lea/ Senior Council members. (Harry would not be able to take them out in a straight fight, like Odin demonstrates in Changes).

Black Court

• Of East European origin (Transylvanian?) - Drakul is said to be ~700 years old.
• Youngest but physically strongest of the vampire courts. While Whamps & Ramps are definitely still alive, Blamps are undead.
• They are most easily able to make more of their own - more so than Whamps & Ramps, I suspect through a process using necromancy
• Blamps feed on blood though I suspect they draw life energy from it unlike the Ramps who use it as fuel. Have an affinity for necromantic magic.
• The stronger Blamps (Mavra's the only higher level one we've seen) are at a level with Senior Council members. (Harry would not easily be able to take Mavra out in a straight fight, given that Ebenezer was tied up in BR holding her down).

The fact that the Blamps refer to the Ramps (who refer to the Whamps) as cousins got me started on a line of thought. The major similarity the vampire courts seem to have with each other is that they feed on humans & in order to become one, you have to kill a human. The Whamps are basically humans with a demonic symbiote; Ramps are no longer human, having transformed into bat-like creatures; & Blamps are no longer mortal - they are undead humans with decaying flesh & a moving skeleton.

Here is my WAG -

We have seen throughout the series that the seriously powerful beings such as Mother Winter, Uriel & even Ferrovax have to greatly limit themselves in order to visit the Earth - they have such metaphysical mass that our plane would not be able handle them in their entirety, therefore each of the powers at this level have created "lesser" versions of themselves in order to affect/ influence our plane - the Fae Mother-Queen-Lady dynamic, Dragons vs dragons etc.

However even these lesser versions are limited because they are immortal - the only beings who aren't limited are mortal humans with free will. Therefore in order to have the most influence on our plane, they have to find a way to influence humans - this is why I suspect many scions such as Goodman Grey & Kincaid are sired (the Fae courts were able to sidestep this by creating the office of the Knight). 

The vampire courts are therefore attempts by various nefarious powers to maintain their influence on Earth/ through humans. I think of the vampire courts as 3 successive iterations - each moving further away from humanity & mortality, getting cruder but vastly gaining in strength. Whamps were the first version, Reds were the second & Blamps were the third.

I also suspect that Dragons are involved in the creation of the vampire courts. Here is some circumstantial evidence:

• Ferrovax shows up to the party at Bianca's. Ferrovax as the Eldest Dragon is immensely powerful - capable to collapsing reality where he stands were he to take his real form - he is probably at a level of personal power somewhere between Mab & Mother Winter - why does he bother showing up to the ascension of a mid-level Red Court noble at all? It would be like inviting Hades to a party because Ramirez made warden. However if Dragons are involved in the creation of the vampire courts, his presence makes a little more sense.
• Drakul, progenitor of the Black Court's name means son of a dragon.


What do you guys think?

[Avernite]

I admit, it has always been a bit baffling that the Vampire Courts are grouped together when they are so distinct, so I see real value in trying to figure out their commonality.

However, the Whites to me are too weak to be a serious attempt by a major power-broker; they work because they are basically human (and so a real fight between them and a supernatural power almost surely drags in all humanity), not because they have so much power.

I rather think it's politics; the Red and White Court are politically aligned, so it suits them to call eachother cousins to emphasize the connection (even as they aren't nearly as friendly as they officially are). They also prey on humans, sure, but who doesn't? The Winter Court seems much closer to the White Court in their relation with humanity (i.e. a partly hostile parasitic presence that cannot procreate except with humans).

An alternative explanation is that it's their enemies who named them thus. We know the Reds are from the New World, where the White is from the Old. Perhaps the first Wizards to follow Cortes thought 'wow these yokels are oppressing the locals almost like our vampires' and nicknamed them vampires too, and then had to distinguish (the White Court being the Vampires of White people, the Red court of Red people). Of course this relies on the supernatural scene being almost as local as the normal, even though they have means of crossing borders more easily (as evidenced by the three Swords of the Cross having two European and one Japanese name).


As to why Ferrovax was at the party for Bianca - I think everyone but Harry and Susan knew events at that party were MUCH bigger than a simple noble being promoted. Bianca's promotion was an assault by the Red Court upon the spheres of influence of the White Council & Court, and attracted the attention of Winter, a Knight of the Cross, and a Dragon. Ferrovax may be the strongest individual present (and even that is dubious compared to the arbitrary power scale of the Knights), but the other Powers present together represent all the big honchos except Summer.

So, Ferrovax was present to witness the start of a War that led to the wiping out of one of the top Supernatural powers; not because it was an important noble, but because it was an important event.

[Snark Knight]

The vampire courts are therefore attempts by various nefarious powers to maintain their influence on Earth/ through humans. I think of the vampire courts as 3 successive iterations - each moving further away from humanity & mortality, getting cruder but vastly gaining in strength. Whamps were the first version, Reds were the second & Blamps were the third.
...

• Drakul, progenitor of the Black Court's name means son of a dragon.

FWIW, someone asked in a Q&A a while ago what Drakul Sr. was a scion of, and the WOJ was that he's something completely inhuman that got trapped in human form. His scion, Dracula, was attempting to do something that sounded a heck of a lot like an ascension ritual in an effort to impress his father when something went wrong and he turned himself into the first blampire.

As for Goodman Grey, I suspect his origins owe more to a naagloshii divining that the best way to hurt some poor woman was to make her carry a monster's child than out of an attempt to create a free-willed servitor. The naagloshii are beings that shirked their duty and purpose - they're scary powerful in comparison to a wizard, but miles down the power scale from beings like the Mothers that need a knight or scions to get things done on earth. The skinwalkers don't even seem to have much in the way of objectives beyond feeding on pain. Shaggy only even left his home territory at all because he was acting as mercenary muscle for the Circle.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I rather think it's politics; the Red and White Court are politically aligned, so it suits them to call each other cousins to emphasize the connection (even as they aren't nearly as friendly as they officially are). They also prey on humans, sure, but who doesn't? The Winter Court seems much closer to the White Court in their relation with humanity (i.e. a partly hostile parasitic presence that cannot procreate except with humans).

That is an interesting idea but I would have to see more connections between the two groups to believe you were on to something.  I wonder if the White Court has any myths about how they came into being.

[Avernite]

That is an interesting idea but I would have to see more connections between the two groups to believe you were on to something.  I wonder if the White Court has any myths about how they came into being.

Eh, I'm not looking for connections between the Whites and Winter. I am lookingfor 'if I had to group the supernatural baddies of the world into separate containers, would I make a container for the Red and White court together?'

And my answer is 'not based on their bare existence, because the bare existence of the White Court would put them closer to say Winter'.

Leading to the conclusion that there must be something that groups not by their basic existence, like politics, to explain the Courts being grouped as 'vampires'.

[morriswalters]

Eh, I'm not looking for connections between the Whites and Winter. I am lookingfor 'if I had to group the supernatural baddies of the world into separate containers, would I make a container for the Red and White court together?'

Susan and Thomas are very much the same in terms of their abilities.  She prior to the full change, he after the full change.  In both cases the change to full vampire requires a fatal feeding.  JB even describes the effects of hunger in a very similar fashion.  Susan's eyes turning black, Thomas's silver.  The Red's could almost be a mutation of the Whites.  Vamps ver. 2.0.  On the other hand calling the Black's vampires confuses the issue since they appear to be a completely different thing.  And who knows about the
Asian cohort.

[toodeep]

It has been a view of mine that all the vampire courts started by welding a spirit from the never-never onto the spirit of a human to give that human extra power.  So there were two variables - 1. what kind of spirit was attached to the human and 2.  what exact contract/mechanism of attachment was used. 

The progenitor of the white court (i.e. first human attached to a hunger demon) made probably the best "deal" in that he/she received immortality but stayed primarily in control of their fate.  The progenitor of the red court probably only meant to become a half-rampire - the immortality and strength goodness, but still in control but messed up with the deal to some extent making it that the spirit took control if they actually killed - and thus the rampire was born.  The Black progenitor (Dracula) probably messed up the worst, since apparently the spirit is in control and the host is dead.  My first thought was that maybe the first black court vampire was created by a failed attempt by a well meaning person to resurrect someone but apparently that is not the case.  Maybe Dracula made the deal as a way of "faking his death" i.e. he made the deal, got "killed" and thought he would come back in control animated by the spirit but that probably didn't work they way he meant it to.

[kbrizzle]

I’m not sure I see the similarities between the White & Winter courts. The denizens of the Winter Court do not have free will & no parasite that I know of. In addition, one of the main purposes of Winter is to guard reality, the Whamps seem to just prey on humans to survive, which is what makes them vampiric. I’m also not sure that the only way Winter Fae can procreate is with humans - Toot doesn’t seem like he would have a human parent.

@Snark Knight
Oh I’m sure that was part of why Goodman’s shaggy dad impregnated the human, but we’ve seen that powerful immortals often do things for multiple reasons. Otherwise we’d see a lot more scions since these creatures enjoy hurting humans but do not always impregnate their quarry.

@Avernite
I believe they are grouped as vampires because they are all former humans with differing levels of being melded with their symbiote. Whamps still have a soul, it’s murky whether a Red can be soulgazed & I’m pretty sure Blamps cannot. All 3 also need humans to survive - they are their primary food source - I don’t believe we have been introduced to other creatures that are of definite human extraction that need to feed on humans to survive.
Also, I believe the swords have 3 Latin names even though they seem to differ in design - Amoracchius, Fidelacchius & Esperacchius. It is mentioned that Fidelacchius was re-melted into a katana at some point.

@morriswalters
I would believe that a high level Whamp like Thomas would be more powerful than a half-turned Ramp, but it’s an interesting observation (their power levels seem to be similar).

@toodeep
I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how it went at first - but the pattern of each court moving further away from human has a unique symmetry that seems meaningful

[Bad Alias]

In both cases the change to full vampire requires a fatal feeding.

That's not necessarily the case. See Bigfoot on Campus.

[morriswalters]

Well, ya got me.  But he is a scion, right?

[Bad Alias]

Yes and that (perhaps even the type of scion) was why he was able to survive. My point is simply that killing isn't necessary for the Whites. It's probably impossible, or close to it, to avoid when feeding on a vanilla, but that doesn't mean killing is necessary.

Killing is, as far as we know, absolutely necessary for the Reds.