Dead Beat Question

[Bad Alias]

How did Bob know how to pull off the Darkhallow?

At the end of Chapter 34, Harry says "Bob used to be Kemmler's" and "Bob knows everything about the theory that Kemmler did." And then, near the end of Chapter 42, Bob says "It is precisely as the master described." But all the way back in Chapter 3, Harry orders Bob to permanently forget those memories. We later learn that Bob has expelled those memories into a separate SoI.

What's going on here? Did Jim make a mistake and have Bob remember something he couldn't? Did Jim make a mistake creating Evil Bob in Ghost Story? Was Bob pretending to know more than he did?

If it was left at Bob is just awesome and could figure out how to do a Darkhallow, that would have been fine. And that's what I said when my brother asked me this question. Then I reread the book after he asked me, with that question existing in my mind. The real problem with that explanation is Bob's quote from Chapter 42.

[morriswalters]

  Harry told Bob to forget it.  But Bob's new owner could have forced him to remember.  Which is what happened in Dead Beat, then Bob spun it off, evidently after the events of Dead Beat. To prevent it from happening again.  Thus creating Evil Bob.  Your guess is as good as mine as to if it was planned that way

[Bad Alias]

That's a stretch, but it's workable. Bit of a retcon.

[peregrine]

Bob may have forgotten it, but it's unlikely that he forgot every single thing related to it.  Between the fractions he retained and the knowledge Kemmler's disciples already had from studying under him and his methods, it's possible they were able to piece it together.

[morriswalters]

That's a stretch, but it's workable. Bit of a retcon.

Given JB's comments on his process it's to be expected.  I can't write, but if I could, and I chose to write a 20 book opus, I would create a bible of events just to keep track.  JB evidently does not do that, at least in detail.

[apgrey]

  The issue as described by Bob in Dead Beat is, yes Harry ordered Bob to forget what he knew from his years with Kemmler.  However, when Cowl had possession, he could reverse that order.
  So, after the events in Dead Beat Bob undertook to get rid of that knowledge permanently.  He did this be splitting off Evil Bob.  He did not seem to recall doing this, but it must have happened shortly after the end of Dead Beat.

APG

[Bad Alias]

  The issue as described by Bob in Dead Beat is, yes Harry ordered Bob to forget what he knew from his years with Kemmler.  However, when Cowl had possession, he could reverse that order.
  So, after the events in Dead Beat Bob undertook to get rid of that knowledge permanently.  He did this be splitting off Evil Bob.  He did not seem to recall doing this, but it must have happened shortly after the end of Dead Beat.

APG

This is the only internally consistent explanation that I can think of. My problem with it is that I don't believe Bob wouldn't have realized he would fall outside of Harry's possession. He's been in the possession of at least two or three* wizards before Harry. I think that it was actually a continuity error that can be explained away.

Maybe splitting Evil Bob off was something that would take time and effort, and Bob hadn't been able to accomplish it when Kumori took possession of him. Having not completed the task, it was interrupted by Cowl's order to help with the Darkhallow. I think that's going be my explanation until something shows otherwise.

*It's been said or implied both that Etienne created the skull sanctum and that it was his skull, as in what housed his brain. I can't remember all the details.

[dspringer1]

Bob almost certainly knows how to create a dark hallow.  He was, after all, there when the dark hallow ritual was formed.  And by there I mean there on Harry's side (while occupying a dinosaur).   

Harry had him forget the Kemler bits, but that would not apply to the bits he learned while serving Harry.   Also keep in mind that the dark hallow principle was incredibly obvious to the wardens when Harry explained what was going on. It is pretty obvious that Bob could have been equally quick to understand the basic mechanics based off a very quick observation. 

[Bad Alias]

Bob almost certainly knows how to create a dark hallow.  He was, after all, there when the dark hallow ritual was formed.  And by there I mean there on Harry's side (while occupying a dinosaur).   

Harry had him forget the Kemler bits, but that would not apply to the bits he learned while serving Harry.   Also keep in mind that the dark hallow principle was incredibly obvious to the wardens when Harry explained what was going on. It is pretty obvious that Bob could have been equally quick to understand the basic mechanics based off a very quick observation.

The point isn't that Bob knows how after Dead Beat or that Bob could figure it out during Dead Beat. The point is that Bob knew how Kemmler had described the Darkhallow after Harry had ordered Bob to permanently forget his time with Kemmler, limiting Bob to only general knowledge of Kemmler.

[dspringer1]

Half right.  He ordered Bob to forgot his time with Kemler.  He did NOT limit Bob to only general knowledge.   Bob was limited to what he learned about Kemler from the time he was not with Kemler.  That means (in practice) only general knowledge at the beginning of Dead Beat.   But the order was specific to Kemler, not information about Kemler.   

Harry was targeting the evil personality of Bob. 

[Bad Alias]

Half right.  He ordered Bob to forgot his time with Kemler.  He did NOT limit Bob to only general knowledge.   Bob was limited to what he learned about Kemler from the time he was not with Kemler.  That means (in practice) only general knowledge at the beginning of Dead Beat.   But the order was specific to Kemler, not information about Kemler.   

Harry was targeting the evil personality of Bob.

So you agree that he was limited to general knowledge, like the book said, and therefore, Bob would not have known how Kemmler had described the Darkhallow?

"Can you still remember general knowledge about Kemmler?"
"Nothing you couldn't find in other places. But general knowledge I learned when Justin was with the Wardens, yes.

Emphasis added.

I'm not saying Harry ordered Bob to only remember general knowledge; I'm saying Harry limited Bob to general knowledge by ordering him to forget his time with Kemmler. I'm only saying what Harry asked, and Bob confirmed.

[Kindler]

Is it possible Justin knew how to do the Darkhallow? Wasn't Kemmler trying to pull one off when the Council took him down for good? Justin seems like the kind of guy who would've sat down to figure out the nuts and bolts of the Ascension Ritual.

[Bad Alias]

I can't find the quote, but I think the Council killed him before he could do the ritual. Additionally, I would think that the Council didn't have any idea about the Darkhallow based on Luccio and Morgan's reactions to it and Harry's explanation of it. If they had killed Kemmler during a Darkhallow, they would have known what was going on before Harry got there and explained it. Also, they would have known that they needed necromancy.

[CallSmith]

Additionally, I would think that the Council didn't have any idea about the Darkhallow based on Luccio and Morgan's reactions to it and Harry's explanation of it. If they had killed Kemmler during a Darkhallow, they would have known what was going on before Harry got there and explained it. Also, they would have known that they needed necromancy.

Tsar Bomba was the largest nuclear bomb that humanity ever unleashed. It was unleashed on October 30th, 1961 in our world and in the Dresdenverse. Whether it was used to kill Kemmler and that's why it was so big, or whether it ended up being bigger due to other powers being used to kill Kemmler cannot be determined at this time.

What this tells us is that Kemmler was killed the day before he could perform the Darkhollow. Whether Morgan and Luccio knew anything more than "We found Kemmler, it's all hands on deck lets end this SOB" is not known at this time.

However there are three fun historic facts about the Tsar Bomba that could tie in to Kemmler's death and other lore stuff. 1.) The island it detonated near/on is one of the northernmost land masses on the planet. 2.) It is in Archangel (the district that Archangel the capital of, so it was in Simon's backyard) 3.) You can make a pretty cool line from ground zero of the Tunguska even to the Tsar Bomba site.