Any news on Peace Talks

[Dina]

This is just about the only thing on the internet I contribute to for that very reason.

I don't follow.

Because Europe has about as many countries as the U.S. has states (depending on how one counts), I've often wondered how many states can the European insulting Americans' knowledge of geography can name. I don't do a whole lot better at naming the states than I do the European countries. There have been a lot of changes to Europe's internal borders in my lifetime, and no noticeable ones in the States, so that's my excuse.

But it's so much easier to explain the difference between your/you're than then/than. Another one that annoys me was all my Spanish teachers failed to properly define bueno/bien as good/well. They defined them both as good, but used differently because so many native English speakers don't get the difference between good/well. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more subtle differences, but, on this particular, all my teachers failed.

I don't know about Europeans. I can name many States from USA but I am unable to place them in a map (except the most obvious ones, like Florida, Alaska or Hawaii  but it's not the same, your States are part of a country, and we generally have not idea of the internal divisions of any country.
I have trouble with good/well  . I believe my teachers failed to teach me that but I try. Anyway, it seems that bueno/bien is accurate in most situations. Mexicans often use "bien" as a sort of "quite". ("Estaba bien chido = it was quite cool") but not in South America, as far as I can tell.

[Bad Alias]

The people on this forum aren't rude, nasty, etc. Most of the internet communities are full of terrible people. Here, not so much. I don't bother with places where a good portion of the criticism isn't exactly constructive. (Also I misread wardenferry419's last sentence there, so my sentence made sense in the context of the misreading).

The States and the European countries are pretty comparable in terms of geography, and sometimes even travel, economic relations, and government. It is a bit of apples and oranges comparison, but even apples and oranges have a lot in common. It wouldn't be hard for me to hop in a car and hit four other states without changing directions, and I live in a part of the country where there aren't any small states. I imagine it's similar for Europe, except Europe has a lot more small countries. I'd expect someone to be able to name all the major jurisdictions they can drive to in a day.

And I can name the internal divisions, or at least some, of many countries. Mostly just from watching TV and reading fiction. European internal divisions can be hard because it seems they've all had so many that have changed, somewhat quickly, over the centuries. You might be surprised how many European countries are younger than the U.S. (and probably most countries in the New World). A lot of European countries are younger than me.

[Dina]

Why would I be surprised? USA is quite old, a lot of countries are younger. Not only mine, but even such important countries as Italy or modern Germany. And for instance, we have a forumite who is from Croatia, a country that was created when I was already in college  . And yes, Europe has changed a lot since I went to primary school. Of course, USA is not so old as Spain or...China, but it is old enough that other countries being younger is not a big deal.

I cannot name the internal divisions of any country but mine (23 provinces + Buenos Aires city)  and, to a certain degree, USA  .

[morriswalters]

Because Europe has about as many countries as the U.S. has states (depending on how one counts), I've often wondered how many states can the European insulting Americans' knowledge of geography can name. I don't do a whole lot better at naming the states than I do the European countries. There have been a lot of changes to Europe's internal borders in my lifetime, and no noticeable ones in the States, so that's my excuse.

There are things the Europeans think, that I care about.  Geography isn't even in the top 1000 of those.  Take away the identifiers as represented by street signage and and they, like most citizens of the US, would be lucky to make it out of their hometowns. 

Geography is the illusion of knowledge.  I know the town where I live. But when I travel to Tennessee to visit a childhood friend, I know the road I travel on and nothing more.  I think I knew all the states and capitals at one time, but I don't think I've used it in any useful way since the day I was taught it.  If I need it I look it up, otherwise I have more important things to keep in memory.  Like where I left my keys.

[groinkick]

Geography is the illusion of knowledge. 

lol no.  It's real knowledge, even if it's not important to some people. 

[Dina]

lol no.  It's real knowledge, even if it's not important to some people.

^ this.

[morriswalters]

lol no.  It's real knowledge, even if it's not important to some people. 

Not when all it means is place names. But that's an opinion.  YMMV.

[Arjan]

Not when all it means is place names. But that's an opinion.  YMMV.

A lot of knowledge is like that. No particular understanding is needed and you can drill it into young children’s heads. But that does not mean it is always useless knowledge, not if you build upon it.

A place name is just a word and the location is just part of its meaning. The more words you know the easier you can read and look up the ones you do not know.

And it tells you something about your interests. If you follow the news and took an effort to find out where that flood or earthquake really was. If you read a history book and looked at a map. Or maybe you just know more about the geography of middle earth than this one, not everyone is interested in everything.

[KurtinStGeorge]

A lot of knowledge is like that. No particular understanding is needed and you can drill it into young children’s heads. But that does not mean it is always useless knowledge, not if you build upon it.

A place name is just a word and the location is just part of its meaning. The more words you know the easier you can read and look up the ones you do not know.

And it tells you something about your interests. If you follow the news and took an effort to find out where that flood or earthquake really was. If you read a history book and looked at a map. Or maybe you just know more about the geography of middle earth than this one, not everyone is interested in everything.

Yes, to this.  When I was very young, maybe five or six, someone gave me a puzzle.  It was a wooden puzzle with fifty pieces, the fifty states of the U.S.  Of course Hawaii was just a square with the islands painted on it that you stuck off in its own little square on the left hand side of the map.  Canada was included only so you could stick Alaska next to it, and the individual Canadian provinces weren't puzzle pieces though I believe they were drawn in on the map.  The capital city of each state was drawn on each puzzle piece.  So; for example, I learned that Bismarck was the capital city of North Dakota even though I had never been there. (And still haven't.)

You could say I didn't learn much from this puzzle, but as I grew up, if I heard a news story that a tornado had done great damage near Topeka, I knew that was in Kansas and I had a rough idea how far away it was from me. 

Several years later my grandmother decided to she wanted to clear some space and she asked family members if they wanted any old books before she gave them to Goodwill or just threw them away.  I picked out a large World Atlas mostly because it had a large number of great photos in it, but it also told a story because it was published in 1942.  The map of most of Europe was one large Nazi flag.  I don't remember if it was named "German Empire" or "Nazi Occupied Europe."  There was an equally large Japanese Rising Sun flag spread out over a large part of the Pacific Ocean, South East Asia and China labeled "Japanese Empire."  I knew a little about the Second World War, but seeing that book made it much more real for me.  I think that Atlas made me want to learn more about history in general. 

[Dina]

I really enjoyed your post, Kurtis.

[Arjan]

My grandfather had an atlas of 1939 I often looked in as a child. I don't know what happened to it.

[morriswalters]

A lot of knowledge is like that. No particular understanding is needed and you can drill it into young children’s heads. But that does not mean it is always useless knowledge, not if you build upon it.

I didn't say that Geography was useless, I said that it was illusionary.  In particular with respect to this.

I've often wondered how many states can the European insulting Americans' knowledge of geography can name.

I suppose that a better word would have been superficial.  For instance three important things are absent from KurtinStGeorge's puzzle.

My grandfather had an atlas of 1939 I often looked in as a child. I don't know what happened to it.

I had my father.  Shot in the hand in some firefight in Africa that he wouldn't talk about.  And full of stories which became part of family lore. My sister and I speculate endlessly about secrets that we imagine to exist.

[Bad Alias]

Not only mine, but even such important countries as Italy or modern Germany. ...

I cannot name the internal divisions of any country but mine (23 provinces + Buenos Aires city)  and, to a certain degree, USA  .

I find a lot of people don't realize how young Germany and Italy are. I think it is because as places or nations, but not countries or nation-states, Germany and Italy "have always been there."

I bet you could name more than you think. Like England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are parts of the U.K. Or perhaps being from former Spanish colony, you can recall all or most of the major political subdivisions of Spain. (I could only get Catalonia, but after looking it up, remembered a couple of others, but definitely not most).

[Dina]

Yes about UK. Spain, more or less like you. Half of my family is from Catalonia, so that is easy, and I can remember others but not all. Piece of useless trivia: In Argentina, we informally call all the Spaniards "Gallego" (from Galice). Similarly, we derived the world "tano" from "Napolitano" (from Napoli) and we call all the Italians "tanos".

[Bad Alias]

I figure the UK is easy for me because, from a certain perspective and to a certain point, it is US history, and my family is English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh (plus all the other stuff just about everyone on this side of he Atlantic will be after their family has been here for several hundred years).

Being from Texas, we study Spanish colonial history as part of Texas history. Mostly the conquistadors. (I still don't know what the Incan Empire has to to with Texas history). We also learned a tiny bit about Spanish history when learning about Christopher Columbus.