Author Topic: Any news on Peace Talks  (Read 207994 times)

Offline Arjan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #570 on: December 11, 2019, 05:25:48 AM »
See this quote from Ghost Story:

Quote
“Excalibur, Durendal, and Kusanagi, yes, yes,” Sir Stuart said, his tone a little impatient. “Of course I know the Swords of the Cross. And the little blond woman has two of them?”

And what Kusanagi actually is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusanagi

Definitely more Shinto than christian. These things adapt to keep functional. How they express themself is a function of human belief. It is probably older than christianity and it will survive it.
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #571 on: December 11, 2019, 11:21:20 AM »
@Bad Alias

I'm sure that I missed good books because of bad covers.  I always regret that Harry doesn't actually wear a hat.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 08:28:07 PM by morriswalters »

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #572 on: December 12, 2019, 05:26:47 AM »
See this quote from Ghost Story:

And what Kusanagi actually is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusanagi

Definitely more Shinto than christian. These things adapt to keep functional. How they express themself is a function of human belief. It is probably older than christianity and it will survive it.
Absolutely agree. That's the whole point that Jim made isn't it - that it's mortal's understanding of the entities that changes, not really the entities themselves.


Any reading of Changes suggesting that the Knights balanced the table at Chechen Itza seems a little nearsighted.  Harry is shitting kittens thinking he has led his allies to their deaths. Had the Knights been able to run the table, Susan needn't have died.  Harry killed every vampire everywhere. god was late to the game and purely local.

As an extra added attraction for the Butter's story line he had to mug Murphy, again.  She is apparently Jim's torture doll.  While Butters was carving the dead Murphy got mind raped.  Lost her career and got demoted. Got dumped at the boat and abandoned in place to cope with the Fomor and the White Vamps. And got a bad knee and a rep as a sword breaker. Kincaid broke her arm, but at least he showed her a good time. Oh yeah and she got puppeted by an angel.  She deserved a larger cut of the diamonds.  And the sword.

I am not suggesting at all that they balanced the table any more than any other piece on the chess board. Merely we are speculating how they are able to overcome odds and the powers that their swords grant them. The salient point is less about ability, and more about destiny. The Knights represent TWG, the Creator, the Authority etc. Which is pretty established by Jim both in the books and without. We definitely know that the Almighty created the universe etc, and that they serve the Almighty. It rather seems logical then that the Knights make their choices, which lead them to create a present of their own making. Hence why the whole interference thing by Angels is so tightly managed. They don't just rewrite reality without permission, as that would lead to them negating Free Will, which sort of defeats the purpose of having it.

But just because the Knights CAN have destiny on their side, doesn't mean they always do. Murphy didn't when she broken the Sword, attempting to kill Nicodemus in a faithless act. Michael didn't when he was shot on the island. Shiro didn't when he gave up his Sword. But funnily enough whilst those individual events don't go well, somehow the whole tapestry of events works out better. Murphy's failure allowed for Butter's success. Shiro's sacrifice allowed for Harry to live, and for Murphy to be a knight, and for Butters to become a Knight. Michael's defeat allowed for him to spend more time with his family, to be there for them and enjoy his life. And to be available when Harry needed him most. It's an enormous game of Go or Chess or whatever - and each move allows for countermoves in a complex and infinite structure beyond human comprehension. Which is why if TWG had wanted them to defeat the Red Court that day, he would have built in the possibilities and chances for that and left it to them to make the choices to create that version of events. But a diffferent destiny had been lined up, which Harry and his allies realized (with all the entailing consequences).

God wasn't late to the game as you put it; he started playing before the Universe got started - if we go by Christian doctrine. Which seems to be how the Dresden Files largely operates. Can't beat a player who planned the whole thing and every conceivable version of events, who is everywhere and able to do anything and knows everything. That's a rigged game, son. Unless of course Free Will keeps it random - and that is whole nature of the battle between Heaven and Hell.

I agree with your analysis about Murphy, from a story perspective. Definitely Jim likes having a few punching bags alongside Harry to manipulate the reader. Wouldn't be a very interesting story if we didn't care. You could argue that Murphy has a rougher time than most, but if you picked the Dresden Files for the good times you are probably reading the wrong series. It's a tragedy, not a comedy really.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 05:29:39 AM by Yuillegan »
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #573 on: December 12, 2019, 11:32:07 AM »
I understand the mythology of the Knights in the DF.  In terms of Murphy, she's carried a lot of the story.  And it would have been nice if there had been a payoff for her character.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #574 on: December 12, 2019, 07:40:15 PM »
We definitely know that the Almighty created the universe etc.
Tiny quibble: I recall Jim saying something along the lines of how would one know the difference between the creator of the universe and a being potent enough to retcon the universe/creation story.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #575 on: December 13, 2019, 01:33:27 AM »
The fact that Harry carried the Spear of Destiny (or Longinus) is definitely worth remembering. The power to warp reality and probability so that all conflicts go your way? Greater than any of those swords or any spell that we have seen. Perhaps it supercharged Butter's sword, perhaps not (which is likely considering it functionally worked the same in the short story). But the fact that Harry carried it with him in hopeless odds, and won, should not be overlooked.

I'm not proposing Fidelacchius needs to be in the immediate presence of the spearhead to function every time - it clearly doesn't. I'm proposing that the presence of the spearhead helped with its initial recovery / transformation.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #576 on: December 13, 2019, 01:34:41 AM »
OK, you asked for a release date, here's the announcement.
Quote
Speaking of Peace Talks, a release date has been set, and we should be able to announce it VERY soon! Join our snazzy new mailing list to ensure you’re among the first to know. (If you were a member of our old Yahoo Groups mailing list, you’re good! Your subscription has been automatically transferred.)
Weirdly this is an announcement about an announcement, and had you been following on Reddit it had been rumored that the date was set, just not announced.  Go figure.

This tasty from Reddit.
Quote
priscellie
Resident Intellectus
 
21 points ·
6 hours ago

This is the only comment I'll make about the timing of the release date, as I don't want folks to press me into splitting hairs, but YES, the release date will be announced before Christmas.
Now we can all say awomen to the WG.

For those like me who are calendar challenged, that's 12 days.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 01:46:37 AM by morriswalters »

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #577 on: December 13, 2019, 02:58:39 AM »
I'm not proposing Fidelacchius needs to be in the immediate presence of the spearhead to function every time - it clearly doesn't. I'm proposing that the presence of the spearhead helped with its initial recovery / transformation.

And I think Fidelacchius starting to act like a lightsaber all the time when it was thrown to Butters may have just possibly been influenced by the fact that the one throwing it had the very probable spear of destiny - which is legendarily supposed to confer victory on the side that carries it - stuffed up his sleeve at the moment.

Just how you put it gave me the impression that the spear supercharged Fidelacchius in that moment, but not that the spear's presence for the Fidelacchius's new lightsaber form to function altogether. But fair enough to the theory. I think that a variety of factors came together to allow Fidelacchius to be "reforged" into its new look - but I concur that it seems likely that the spearhead may well have been one of the more significant factors. One wonders how many times the swords have been broken...they each have at least two names and likely a few more.

Tiny quibble: I recall Jim saying something along the lines of how would one know the difference between the creator of the universe and a being potent enough to retcon the universe/creation story.

Interesting information. Do you remember where he said it? I always love to go digging! I also remember a fan once asking if the Creator was always the Creator as the fan felt the Backup short story implied entities can retroactively gain power. Jim's response was that the fan was assigning limits where there arn't any - that it is mortal's understanding of the entities that changes, not the entities themselves. We Name them, but the being is always the same being, in a cosmic sense. Also, Uriel (who makes it a point of necessity that he does not lie - and has intellectus, and Jim called him a Executive VP of Creation) told Harry that the Almighty is everywhere, see's everything from everyone's POV and experiences it too. I mean he COULD be wrong...but I would say that if the being (his boss and father) that he is referring to is not in fact the Creator and running the show then I shudder to think of what is. Maybe Azathoth - the "Blind Idiot God"... 
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Offline g33k

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #578 on: December 13, 2019, 07:35:43 AM »
Tiny quibble: I recall Jim saying something along the lines of how would one know the difference between the creator of the universe and a being potent enough to retcon the universe/creation story.

I'm pretty sure I recall seeing that WoJ!

I'm also pretty sure Mr. Butcher is kinda infamous for playing geeky wordgames with his fans.

If "The White God" actually had enough power to retcon Creation, and that's how he BECAME the creator... it's kind of like a cyclic pre/post BigBang universe, in a mystic sense.

Maybe THAT is the secret of the Outsiders -- they were in charge of everything, and TWG retcon'ed them out of existence.    8)

Offline Arjan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #579 on: December 13, 2019, 06:08:17 PM »
I'm pretty sure I recall seeing that WoJ!

I'm also pretty sure Mr. Butcher is kinda infamous for playing geeky wordgames with his fans.

If "The White God" actually had enough power to retcon Creation, and that's how he BECAME the creator... it's kind of like a cyclic pre/post BigBang universe, in a mystic sense.

Maybe THAT is the secret of the Outsiders -- they were in charge of everything, and TWG retcon'ed them out of existence.    8)
I also remember something about the current holder of that mantle not being the first one.
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Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #580 on: December 14, 2019, 05:39:44 AM »
I'm pretty sure I recall seeing that WoJ!

I'm also pretty sure Mr. Butcher is kinda infamous for playing geeky wordgames with his fans.

If "The White God" actually had enough power to retcon Creation, and that's how he BECAME the creator... it's kind of like a cyclic pre/post BigBang universe, in a mystic sense.

Maybe THAT is the secret of the Outsiders -- they were in charge of everything, and TWG retcon'ed them out of existence.    8)

Except the WOJ I mentioned says basically the opposite - The Creator is ALWAYS the Creator, it is MORTAL understanding that changes.

I also remember something about the current holder of that mantle not being the first one.

See above. I think you are confusing that with a WOJ that said Uriel might merely be a being that THINKS he is an Archangel etc, and not necessarily be JUST that. All to do with mortal belief, I grant you.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #581 on: December 14, 2019, 06:55:29 AM »
Except the WOJ I mentioned says basically the opposite - The Creator is ALWAYS the Creator, it is MORTAL understanding that changes.
Which changes how he expresses himself in the mortal realm. That is what he is for us. It is a very powerful being but in certain ways humanity is more powerfull.
Quote
See above. I think you are confusing that with a WOJ that said Uriel might merely be a being that THINKS he is an Archangel etc, and not necessarily be JUST that. All to do with mortal belief, I grant you.
I specifically remember the white god. At the time I linked it to the radical changes in his character in history though that does not have to be the case. Human understanding changed.

Uriel's grace behaves like a mantle. If Michael had kept the mantle he would have become Uriel. It was not said with so many words but that is how it looked like. 
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Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #582 on: December 14, 2019, 10:25:34 PM »
Which changes how he expresses himself in the mortal realm. That is what he is for us. It is a very powerful being but in certain ways humanity is more powerfull. I specifically remember the white god. At the time I linked it to the radical changes in his character in history though that does not have to be the case. Human understanding changed.

Uriel's grace behaves like a mantle. If Michael had kept the mantle he would have become Uriel. It was not said with so many words but that is how it looked like. 

Well that's been said of mantle bearers, it might not be true of the Almighty. We really haven't got much to go by, other than the power He gives His agents. And perhaps the power of His enemies - as excellent an indication as any.

But remember mortal understanding once placed Earth at the centre of the universe and the solar system etc. It also once posited that the Earth was flat - some fools still believe that today! I think humanity's power IS significant - but even in the Dresden Files humanity haven't lived longer than the universe. Which seems to me that the universe then has some fundamentals that no amount of understanding will affect. I don't think the Almighty's impact is limited the same way other supernatural's are. He holds the keys to the kingdom, He presumably can bypass the normal restrictions.

In any case, if you could pull up that WOJ or direct me to it as I am having a hard time tracking it down I would appreciate it. :)

Also, with regards to Uriel...I find it highly significant that his Grace acts rather like a Mantle. For two main reasons.

1) Grace is basically what makes an Angel an Angel. This is what Uriel said. BUT - not quite everything. He still had his identity, and seemingly his intellectus. Bob also has said that Angels are able to do what they do mostly via Soulfire. When Harry expresses surprise at this, wondering if Angels even have souls, Bob explains that they don't have much else. Now Bob doesn't know everything and his view gets narrowed because of what he is. But if I had to guess, a soul is merely a word that covers a range of spiritual qualities and pieces. Many cultures such as the Egyptians believed that the soul had multiple parts. Angels and humans share certain parts of the soul, but not all. Angels get more power, but humans get some part that gives them total Free Will. Which is more useful is probably more based on perspective and context. I think Griffin or Serack covered the whole soul thing in a WAG a few years back.

2) If Uriel IS wearing a mantle, then what other mantles might he also be wearing? My personal WAG (and it is wild) is that each Archangel, and perhaps each Angel and even each Soul, might make up TWG in some variation. If you think of TWG as a superbeing (I would say superorganism but it really doesn't quite work), then His "body" is the universes, His "arms" and "legs" are the Angels, and the souls of us are part of His mind. The other part of course is the Archangels. That is how He is able to interact, He is literally doing it through lesser parts of Himself. And we know that He does this - He has sent himself as a Mortal into the world before, perhaps even several times. So we know He is capable of being partially in one form, but the greater part of his infinite power is retained elsewhere. My analogy might be rough, but I think the idea is clear. I have no basis for it in canon or otherwise...but I do wonder. It would go a long way to explaining how He is able to be omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. It also might indicate that part of himself rebelled though...which is also rather disturbing. But then again our bodies and minds rebel against ourselves all the time. Perhaps that's just a part of the natural order of things.

And my WAG best answers the Problem of Evil.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #583 on: December 14, 2019, 11:15:31 PM »
If you look at it historically as in what people really believed at the time the hebrew god started as the head of a pantheon of gods with a wife and so on. The story changed and the other gods in the pantheon changed and some became angels just like some other gods later became saints. I think we can assume that Uriel's grace evolved from something that was originally even more like a mantle.
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #584 on: December 15, 2019, 12:43:48 AM »
It also once posited that the Earth was flat - some fools still believe that today!...

In any case, if you could pull up that WOJ or direct me to it as I am having a hard time tracking it down I would appreciate it. :)...

He still had his identity, and seemingly his intellectus.
It's not the fools who believe such things that worry me.

Sorry. I just have some vague recollection of it, but I do mostly just watch videos posted on Youtube (as opposed to Reddit AMA's and magazine interviews whose transcripts I don't trust to be precise enough to be useful anyway). The main thing is that I recall Jim asking the question "how would you know." A question for in response to an answer is only the implication of an answer. Basically, even if I remember perfectly correctly, Jim did not say that the Creator wasn't the original creator.

Uriel didn't have his intellectus. If you recall, he had to ask where the towels (or sheets or some such thing) were.