Grey Council Identities

[Yuillegan]

Hi All -  I know it is only one vote per person but just want to see what people think.

Who are the members of the Grey Council who we have been introduced to?

“So we found out who 2 of them were, i’d like to know how many of the rest we already know and how many of them haven’t been formally introduced to us yet.”
Hang on, counting… You already know six of the folks who showed up at Chichen Itza, excluding McCoy and Vadderung

We are trying to guess the six we know at Chichen Itza. Which is not to say Luccio, Listens-to-Wind and Carlos are not part of the Grey Council but as they were all supposed to be out of action we are assuming they are not part of the 12 that showed up to Chichen Itza.

I am taking out Eb, Vadderung and Lea as they were all obviously there (though Lea isn't explicitly confirmed, Eb does refer to her as one of "our" - being the Grey Council's Elders).

I have tried to account for a number of options but if I have missed anything just vote "other" and post your nomination and I will add it to the list.

Have at it!

[alllawyersarewizards]

I previously posted this in another thread but it got zero response, likely because everyone thought I was crazy:

Mavra.  She thwarts Cowl’s efforts to get the Word of Kemmler and had had it for years, yet never attempted the Darkhallow.  She teaches Bianca sorcery, yes, but she also probably helped coax Bianca into starting the War that ultimately wiped out the Reds. Plus, she may have been behind the poisoning of Susan, thus bringing about the birth of Maggie and the plan to use the Blood Curse.  Plus she was conspicuously absent from her own lair when Harry raided it, perhaps because she got a tip from her old friend McCoy? She’s playing the long game to eliminate her rivals.

[Yuillegan]

I have long thought Mavra was quietly paying back old insults and removing her rivals. She certainly is playing a long game.

Mavra is really interesting to me. I think she is one of the better examples of a theory I have that there are competing villains with their own agendas. Perhaps one group that simply wants unrestrained power - the anarchists. Others that want the end of reality - Outsider backed team. And others still that just desire to rule reality themselves - Hell backed team. But I think they are all intermingled, appearing to work together but actually running games on each other. I think Mavra is more aligned with the Anarchists, which Maggie Le Fay was originally a part of (along with Justin and several others). I think the Outsider team is taking advantage of certain peoples agendas for their own ends.

[Maz]

We do know from WoJ that Outsiders and the Black Court are very closely connected.  It would seem bizarre that the only apparent Black Court senior official we have seen in operation, with ties to the Red Court (Bianca's teacher), which were also apparently in service of the Outsiders or aligned with them based upon assistance in their battles, and association with the act of subverting the Winter Court of Faeries for Outsider benefit (passing the Athame to the Leanansidhe) would be working on a side other than the Outsiders?  Unless I'm misinterpreting your statement?

[Arjan]

We only know about Harry and Eb. Eb is not on the list so that will be Harry. The rest is guesswork. And I seem to have only one vote so why guess?

[Yuillegan]

Maz - What is that WOJ? Interesting bit of info. I think if you look at Vampires as a whole, they are all connected a to Outsiders, quite a bit more than your average nasty. Perhaps that is where their origins lie. Certainly strong links were between the Reds and Outsiders, both direct and implied. The White's also have some very strange links, but also both direct and implied.

I think it is no accident that vampires are one of the main villains of the series.

Mavra is not only the only Black Court senior official, she is the only one left from before the destruction of her Court. All the others we have seen have been her progeny.

Not sure if who's statement you are confused by..but if you are referring to mine I will explain. As I see it, I am not saying she is on the Grey Council - alllawyersarewizards said that. But it isn't impossible, just unlikely (especially considering Eb's apparent loathing of them and Drakul). But I do think that Mavra might not be completely controlled by the Outsiders, and she isn't necessarily working with the Circle and/or Black Council (which may be the same), or Cowl for that matter (who definitely is from the Circle, and possibly the Black Council). I think she is being exploited by the Outsiders, just like an angry animal, and they nudge her into helping them directly or indirectly. But I suspect her main purpose is to bring down those that ruined the Black Court and perhaps try and restore it again.

Arjan - Just pick whoever you like. I just wanted a list at the top. I suppose I could make it different groups and force people to pick which 6 they thought were most likely... I will have a look at a few possibilities and see if that helps.

[morriswalters]

Some thoughts.  Everyone at the party in Chichen Itza had a staff.  Who has used a staff in the books?

I'm going with Elder Gruff.  Who has a walking stick.  One that oddly enough looks almost exactly like Harry's staff, with runes and everything.