White Court: emotions

[zetadog]

if there were a branch of white court that fed on good emotions, like comedy, and they were stand up comedians and clowns, would they be good guys?

[wardenferry419]

I am sure that it would be twisted in such a way as to make them a family of Jokers.

[Arjan]

if there were a branch of white court that fed on good emotions, like comedy, and they were stand up comedians and clowns, would they be good guys?

In the end they feed on other peoples life energy, they are vampires. They can not be good guys.

[Ananda]

In the end they feed on other peoples life energy, they are vampires. They can not be good guys.

All animals eat and that, most often, involves death.

[Arjan]

All animals eat and that, most often, involves death.

Sure but an intelligent creature that eats humans is usually seen as evil. An animal gets a pass because it is not intelligent enough to be considered truly evil.

[Ananda]

Sure but an intelligent creature that eats humans is usually seen as evil. An animal gets a pass because it is not intelligent enough to be considered truly evil.

Humans have entire industry setup where the unnecessarily cruel treatment of animals for food is done to save a few coins rather than making a little less profit but treating the animals ethically. Countries like america, germany, danmark are among the worst in the west (not that there aren’t exceptions in each place). One assumes the DF universe is the same as ours in that respect. This would make the categorisation of eating free ranged humans here and there as “evil” a bit rich. Of course, we’re not very logical animals and cognitive dissonance is a thing.

[Fcrate]

Humans have entire industry setup where the unnecessarily cruel treatment of animals for food is done to save a few coins rather than making a little less profit but treating the animals ethically. Countries like america, germany, danmark are among the worst in the west (not that there aren’t exceptions in each place). One assumes the DF universe is the same as ours in that respect. This would make the categorisation of eating free ranged humans here and there as “evil” a bit rich. Of course, we’re not very logical animals and cognitive dissonance is a thing.

You're absolutely right. They're not evil for feeding, they're evil for feeding on us, and we have to stomp the bastards to the ground on general principle.
I work on an animal farm here, and while we do the whole ethics thing (the owners are religious, gentle souls), I often thought in my earlier years that if the bulls ever realized they're going to be eaten, and decided to do something about it, we'd be royally fucked.

[Arjan]

Humans have entire industry setup where the unnecessarily cruel treatment of animals for food is done to save a few coins rather than making a little less profit but treating the animals ethically. Countries like america, germany, danmark are among the worst in the west (not that there aren’t exceptions in each place). One assumes the DF universe is the same as ours in that respect. This would make the categorisation of eating free ranged humans here and there as “evil” a bit rich. Of course, we’re not very logical animals and cognitive dissonance is a thing.

It is all very logical, it is about "Us" and "Them". To even consider cruelty to animals a thing you have to feel empathy for them, you have to include them in a group that includes you. Human history is partly about expanding the "Us" when civilization proceeds. We can hardly expect civilization to proceed if the humans in the next village are primarily seen as a good source of proteins.

That is why in war the first thing propaganda does is to dehumanize the enemy. Maybe in future they have to be deanimalized as well.

One of the ways to do so is to call them evil of course. And the enemy that hides between you and eats you is as evil as it can get. They might not see themselves as evil because after all we are just cattle and not included in the group they empathize with but for us it is quite clear. Unless you empathize with the guy who eats you and I am not going that far.

Though I can empathize with the guy who eats my neighbor at the moment.

[Ananda]

I think you may have shifted the goal a bit. Your first statement seemed to be a sweeping characterisation of their objective place in that universe. Your follow up statement is now more a human endemic point of view.

Also, I’d point out that your supporting examples for your logic argument are direct appeals to emotion.

In my opinion, if examining the food chain logically, those higher on it eat those who are lower. There is no value judgement for choosing to live by eating. The value judgment only enters on how you do it and *that* is where empathy and sympathy live and only because we’ve evolved these systems likely as part of a species survival mechanism (as all mammals and many other species). The concept of “evil” itself is just a mirror back to these chemical reactions in our brains as our developed minds attempt to find patterns and meaning when these evolved mechanisms and our ability to interpret them exceeded the initial design. Hydrogen has no such hangups.

And, no judgement there. Personally, I think we’re captives to our chemical reactions and the emotions they cause combined with socialisation, circumstances, et cetera. I don’t even think we have free will as we think of it, but that’s another topic.

As for your neighbour, have you ever considered a pet tiger? I hear they have fearful symmetry. Our cat might help, too. She’s on an allergy diet for two months and her canned food’s main ingredient is potato peels so she’s craving meat. She now wakes me daily at 4.00, 4.30, 5.00 and so to loudly complain about the lack of chicken on her plate.

[morriswalters]

Evil need never appear in this argument.  I love my dog but if she starts eating the neighbors I will put her down. It wouldn't make her evil, just dangerous.

To to OP, As long as they don't kill me, stand up comics can make me laugh all they want.

And JB(Harry)'s moral compass doesn't seem to have a true north.  He's gonna put down Lara, because she eats people, and yet his brother gets invited to all his birthday parties.  In a cheesy horror movie people would be yelling at the screen saying, "You'll be sorry."

[Arjan]

I think you may have shifted the goal a bit. Your first statement seemed to be a sweeping characterisation of their objective place in that universe. Your follow up statement is now more a human endemic point of view.

Also, I’d point out that your supporting examples for your logic argument are direct appeals to emotion.

Not surprising because the word evil is all about emotion. It is about empathy and fear. Without emotions the word evil has no meaning.

In my opinion, if examining the food chain logically, those higher on it eat those who are lower. There is no value judgement for choosing to live by eating. The value judgment only enters on how you do it and *that* is where empathy and sympathy live and only because we’ve evolved these systems likely as part of a species survival mechanism (as all mammals and many other species). The concept of “evil” itself is just a mirror back to these chemical reactions in our brains as our developed minds attempt to find patterns and meaning when these evolved mechanisms and our ability to interpret them exceeded the initial design. Hydrogen has no such hangups.

But the word evil is about value judgements. You assign value to what is good and you judge evil what is threatening good.

If you create too much distance the words good and evil become meaningless.

And, no judgement there. Personally, I think we’re captives to our chemical reactions and the emotions they cause combined with socialisation, circumstances, et cetera. I don’t even think we have free will as we think of it, but that’s another topic.

As for your neighbour, have you ever considered a pet tiger? I hear they have fearful symmetry. Our cat might help, too. She’s on an allergy diet for two months and her canned food’s main ingredient is potato peels so she’s craving meat. She now wakes me daily at 4.00, 4.30, 5.00 and so to loudly complain about the lack of chicken on her plate.

Our first cat ate everything that came out of a tin and was labeled cat food. Our current cats only eat a few things and we have tried everything on the shelves. We humans here only eat free ranged meat but cats....

[Arjan]

Evil need never appear in this argument.  I love my dog but if she starts eating the neighbors I will put her down. It wouldn't make her evil, just dangerous.

Depends on the neighbors. You might have different neighbors. We just labeled the neighbors evil so that makes the dog a servant of good.

Unless the dog is a white court vampire that feeds on the lustfull bestiality of the neighbors. That goes to far. That is evil.

To to OP, As long as they don't kill me, stand up comics can make me laugh all they want.

And JB(Harry)'s moral compass doesn't seem to have a true north.  He's gonna put down Lara, because she eats people, and yet his brother gets invited to all his birthday parties.  In a cheesy horror movie people would be yelling at the screen saying, "You'll be sorry."

Harry is just human. His moral compass is influenced by things like family and friends.

[morriswalters]

Depends on the neighbors.

You must have weird neighbors.

Harry is just human. His moral compass is influenced by things like family and friends.

Yes, his brother is a murderer.

(click to show/hide)

Jim actually throws this into our faces in Turn Coat, where he has Binder pretty much lay it out. 

“Some of the bloody fools I’ve known,” Binder said. “Can’t stop talking about how tragic they are. The poor lonely vampires. How they’re just like us. Bloody idiots.”

[Arjan]

You must have weird neighbors.Yes, his brother is a murderer.

Just the usual stuff asocial people do. Smoking outside when I want to open my windows and making too much noise when I want too sleep. I won’t send my cats to kill and eat him, it might poison my cats.

(click to show/hide)

Jim actually throws this into our faces in Turn Coat, where he has Binder pretty much lay it out. 

You are not supposed to agree with all Harry’s moral choices. It would make a boring book. But I can sympatise.

[morriswalters]

I really don't care about Harry's moral choices.  I just wouldn't want him for a neighbor. 
I'm glad you have a proper appreciation for the welfare of your cat.