Is it possible to kill a WC Hunger Demon?

[Ananda]

On a semi-related topic, how are wc vampires created? Clearly, being nibbled on (or even feasted on) does not transmit infection. Do they have to be born? If so, how is the creature transmitted through egg or sperm? The infection, which can be killed prior to the first feeding, is a discreet entity, it seems? Or, is it all one being in many bodies? I never quite understood what these things were supposed to be.

[Wizard Sibelis]

On a semi-related topic, how are wc vampires created? Clearly, being nibbled on (or even feasted on) does not transmit infection. Do they have to be born? If so, how is the creature transmitted through egg or sperm? The infection, which can be killed prior to the first feeding, is a discreet entity, it seems? Or, is it all one being in many bodies? I never quite understood what these things were supposed to be.

Genetic disorder? From my best guess they are from the lineages of 3 of Ares and Hermaphrodites children, roughly fear, despair and lust iirc(which I don't ;p )

[peregrine]

Well, we've seen them come through the paternal line.  Definitely it's born rather than made from a pure vanilla human.  Not sure whether or not a vampire mother could carry a child to term without the demon killing the baby in utero.

[vultur]

On a semi-related topic, how are wc vampires created? Clearly, being nibbled on (or even feasted on) does not transmit infection. Do they have to be born?

Yes, WC vamps reproduce in the regular human way, they can't "turn" normal humans. But the person isn't fully a WC vamp until they kill someone by feeding.

The infection, which can be killed prior to the first feeding, is a discreet entity, it seems? Or, is it all one being in many bodies? I never quite understood what these things were supposed to be.

I think it's a separate spirit that inhabits the body along with the human soul. It seems to be discrete, since it can be killed...

It's possible that a new Hunger demon is simply summoned from the Nevernever to inhabit a proto-WC vamp. Hmmmm, that might even explain why the Raiths aren't as numerous as one might expect, maybe there's only so many of the right type of demons around. I wouldn't be surprised if the White Court is basically maintained by a kind of massive persistent bloodline spell...

Although Uriel seems to think of them as a form of scion, so maybe the original founder was half-human, half-some kind of freaky deep-Nevernever demon.

(There's also the "Outsider sleeper agents" wild theory, based on the "Empty Night" curse they use being the last BAT title, and also used by Mother Summer to refer to - apparently - an Outsider victory. I speculated way back when that the WC Hunger demons were some kind of "Outsider gone native" or Outsider-hijacked NN entity or whatever; that the Outsiders/Walkers/Old Ones/whatever might have a "override switch" that would turn all the WC vamps into their minions...)

From my best guess they are from the lineages of 3 of Ares and Hermaphrodites children, roughly fear, despair and lust iirc(which I don't ;p )

Yeah, not quite. Ares' children with Aphrodite (not Hermaphroditus, who was the son of Hermes and Aphrodite in an unrelated myth) were Eros and Anteros (gods of desire/love), Deimos/Phobos (gods of fear), and Harmonia (goddess of harmony). Nothing equivalent to despair.

Not sure whether or not a vampire mother could carry a child to term without the demon killing the baby in utero.

Apparently so... wasn't Cesarina Malvora Vitto's mother?

[Wizard Sibelis]

Deimos/Phobos (gods of fear),

Fear and terror, the abject giving in, subtle but important distinction.

[peregrine]

Apparently so... wasn't Cesarina Malvora Vitto's mother?

Good point.  Assuming it's not something else going on like surrogacy or whatever.

[Arjan]

It should be easier for the mother if she is a vampire too as long as she keeps herself and her demon well fed.

[LordDresden2]

On a semi-related topic, how are wc vampires created? Clearly, being nibbled on (or even feasted on) does not transmit infection. Do they have to be born? If so, how is the creature transmitted through egg or sperm? The infection, which can be killed prior to the first feeding, is a discreet entity, it seems? Or, is it all one being in many bodies? I never quite understood what these things were supposed to be.

Nor does anybody else, yet.  There's some mystery linked to the White Court.

What we do know, or think we know:

1.  They seem to have originated in pre-Roman Italy, or at least they use Etruscan as their 'official' language in sort of the same way the Council uses Latin.

2.  They are either immortal, or very nearly so.  However, they do age, at least somewhat.  As I've noted before, everybody recognizes Lord Raith, Lara, and Thomas as family, but people also usually recognize LR as the oldest and Lara as Thomas' older sister.  So they are not frozen in time.

3.  They reproduce sexually, just like normal humans.  In fact, they look to be a variety of human being.  They have souls and free will, they can be soulgazed, they are at least capable of genuine Love, and they can use magic in the same way as a human, and when they do, it produces tech bane.  Mab has implied that a White Court 'vampire' would be a viable Faerie Knight.  We know that a WCV can be preyed on and 'turned' by a Black Court vampire, we don't know but presumably it could be done by a Red, too.  They feed on life energy for their Hunger, but they also eat normal food and drink water, too.

That all suggests that WVCs are basically variant humans.

4.  Since they reproduce just like everybody else, there presumably had to be a first WVC or group of such, though it's entirely conceivable that the entire Court is descended from one person.

5.  We don't know if LR is a first-generation WCV or not, but it looks unlikely.  OTOH, he's apparently been around for many centuries and been influential enough to have had some effect on general human culture.  So he might be one of the early generations.

6.  It has been hinted that some kind of connection exists between the White Court and the Outsiders.

[vultur]

2.  They are either immortal, or very nearly so.  However, they do age, at least somewhat.  As I've noted before, everybody recognizes Lord Raith, Lara, and Thomas as family, but people also usually recognize LR as the oldest and Lara as Thomas' older sister.  So they are not frozen in time.

Yeah, there is definitely some aging, but it must be subtle. I mean Thomas is about 40, Lara is over 100, and Lord Raith is maybe 2000. It probably slows exponentially or something, otherwise if the rate of aging was high enough to make the difference between Lara and Thomas noticeable, Lord Raith would be decrepit, which he clearly isn't.

Something of the same thing seems to happen to wizards, except that their exponentially slowed aging seems to happen about physically 50 or so... Luccio is described as looking maybe early middle age, with gray hair but very physically fit, but she's 200ish and talks about going through menopause 140 years ago. So she must have aged only a bit slower than human normal for her first 40 years of adulthood, but barely at all in the last 140 years...

That all suggests that WVCs are basically variant humans.

I totally agree. The difference between WCVs and standard humans is probably entirely magical/spiritual, not genetic - the result of having a Hunger demon stuck in their soul. It's probably roughly analogous to the Loup-garou curse or Lycanthropes or a permanent (non-item-based) form of Hexenwolf-ism/Denarian-hood.

4.  Since they reproduce just like everybody else, there presumably had to be a first WVC or group of such, though it's entirely conceivable that the entire Court is descended from one person.

I'd expect that there probably was one founder. At first I was thinking one for each House, with the Fear, Despair, and Lust Hunger demons being separate types, but since a WCV can switch feeding-types (as Madrigal did) there can't be a fundamental difference between the Hunger demons of the different WC Houses. I think the "fixed" feeding types are just tradition.

5.  We don't know if LR is a first-generation WCV or not, but it looks unlikely.

Why? I don't see that there is really any evidence one way or the other. Or rather, I can see evidence both ways.

On the pro side, Lord Raith (pre-Lara) seems excessively powerful. Even after being unable to feed for 30 years, he was horribly powerful in the battle in BR. He could rip someone's life out with a touch, which seems way beyond what we see from the others.
 
On the con side, Raith's position among the Houses doesn't seem as absolute as it would have been if LR had been White King since the very beginning. If a single overwhelmingly powerful ruler had been in charge since the beginning, the White Court probably wouldn't be as cat's-paw heavy and indirect as they are.

[Quantus]

One more "Fact" we know is that Uriel refers to that type as a Half-born, which for me puts them in the category of some sort of changling-style mixed race that is breeding true rather than having the Fae Changling Choice. Actually, they are probably most closely related to the berserker-style werewolves, the biker-gang kind that is born with a rage-spirit.  Also worth nothing that on several occasions when a particularly powerful Wampire is tapping their hunger powers it has literally lowered the temperature of the room, caused frost to form, etc.  (Pretty sure Papa wraith did it sometimes, and I know it happened in Bigfoot on Campus)