In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake

[peregrine]

The Loa Harry calls up talks about the darkness that has stained him (or something like that) and while he says that's mostly other people's staining that's touching him, he admits it's not all other people's doing.  Which I took to include him whacking Justin.

[groinkick]

We also don't know if wizards who specialize in subtle magic like Molly can mask other wizards from sensing their dark magic stain.  Peabody was probably aided by someone, or something that knows how to cover it up too... 

[Gman]

I think most powerful beings/factions have limitations put on them in the story. I think that it is not random about Wizards messing up tech. I think someone powerful or a powerful faction put this limitation on wizards. Such as the Fae can't lie or their bane is iron. I think a possible explanation is wizards change reality. If reality is becoming less fixed and more fluid, some things can be less reliable and more things can go wrong especially things that are sensitive. Some things explained by Harry in the DF may be because Harry is young and inexperienced and not 100% correct. I was in the Army and shot many weapons. I've had weapons jam on occasion. Some were more reliable than others. I had an M-16 that jammed frequently and I asked the Armorer to change with another one that never seemed to jam (it was a really old one from the Vietnam era vs the unreliable fairly new one). I've had M-60s jam rarely and I've never had an M-2 jam on me. I've also had dud rounds or rounds that even partially exploded and left a bullet in the barrel. That can cause the weapon to explode if you shoot another round without clearing the bullet out of the barrel.

[Fcrate]

Harry tends to detect it one of two ways -- either by skin-to-skin contact, or when they're actively casting magic at him.

And it might fade -- in Blood Rites, Harry specifically says that the one witch didn't shake his hand because she'd cast black magic recently and wouldn't be able to hide it if he'd touched her hand.

Peabody's hands are probably stained with ink, and every time we see him on-page, he's got a bunch of papers in his hands. I can buy that he could avoid casual skin-to-skin contact. DuMorne was distant enough from Council stuff when he had Harry that Harry didn't know the White Council existed.

He was a warden. Frequently in the company of other wardens. It's their job, and one of the reasons Harry didn't want to become one. Too many secrets, and that's for a good guy. I agree with you at the peabody thing. I didn't think of it that way.

The Loa Harry calls up talks about the darkness that has stained him (or something like that) and while he says that's mostly other people's staining that's touching him, he admits it's not all other people's doing.  Which I took to include him whacking Justin.

She smelled Dark magic on him, and I when he said it's not his, I took it to mean that's the remenants of the dark energy he bit off Leonid Kravos. Yes, the rest include whacking Justin, and a few other nasty stuff.

[Mr. Death]

He was a warden. Frequently in the company of other wardens. It's their job, and one of the reasons Harry didn't want to become one. Too many secrets, and that's for a good guy. I agree with you at the peabody thing. I didn't think of it that way.

We don't know when Justin went bad, though -- he might not have turned to dark magic until after he left the Wardens.

Thinking about it, what we know of his attempts to enthrall Harry and Elaine may well indicate he wasn't very well versed in it -- he needed Elaine's help to subdue Harry, he had to take them one at a time and planned to restrain Harry physically... and even his enthrallment of Elaine apparently wasn't total, since she sneakily used a binding spell she knew Harry could break.

So in sum, I don't think we can use Justin as an example until or unless we have a better idea of just how often he actually used black magic.

[Fcrate]

We don't know when Justin went bad, though -- he might not have turned to dark magic until after he left the Wardens.

I'd think he  either went bad when he snuck Bob's skull from the wardens after the fight with Kemmler, leaving them to think it was destroyed, or long before, and he'd been planning a double cross, if he could make it.

[peregrine]

I've got to agree.  He was most likely crooked by the time he helped take out Kemmler, otherwise he'd have turned Bob over to the Council at large.

[Mr. Death]

True, it's as likely as not.

But he could have been "bad" or planning to turn for a long time before he actually broke a law.

[Arjan]

Bob would be a temptation for any wizard.

[peregrine]

Yes, but a warden almost certainly would have some kind of responsibility to turn a danger like Bob over to the relevant authorities.  Keeping Bob is like a cop deciding to help himself to the rocket launcher at a militia compound rather than entering it into evidence.  Yeah, it's tempting, but actually doing so is a massive violation of their duty.  Much moreso for a warden than a regular wizard.

[Mr. Death]

Yes, but a warden almost certainly would have some kind of responsibility to turn a danger like Bob over to the relevant authorities.  Keeping Bob is like a cop deciding to help himself to the rocket launcher at a militia compound rather than entering it into evidence.  Yeah, it's tempting, but actually doing so is a massive violation of their duty.  Much moreso for a warden than a regular wizard.

Yeah, but wizards -- to a man -- are arrogant bastards who think they can handle anything they come across. I bet a large number of wizards would see Bob and think, "Kemmler used this to do terrible things... but it would be such a waste to destroy it, and I know for certain that I can resist the temptation to use it for evil."

[peregrine]

Yes.  But a warden who hasn't gone crooked would (I'm making some assumptions about the rules for wardens here) also say "But I've sworn to turn over such dangerous objects to the Council to be either locked away or destroyed.  So I will, because I'm all about upholding the Laws."

[groinkick]

Yes.  But a warden who hasn't gone crooked would (I'm making some assumptions about the rules for wardens here) also say "But I've sworn to turn over such dangerous objects to the Council to be either locked away or destroyed.  So I will, because I'm all about upholding the Laws."

I dunno...  Jim made a good example about wizards and the oblivion war, and how you don't want them anywhere near it because they love to record information.  Would someone like Morgan destroy Bob?  yeah probably but so many more would wonder the information he had, and want to really figure out what they could learn.  It's a strong part of their nature.  It's probably a reason why they are able to do magic, their desire for knowledge.

[peregrine]

Yes.  Morgan probably would.  Because he's a warden.  I'm not arguing all the wizards would.  Probably a lot of them wouldn't.

But a warden, tasked with doing things like shutting down what Kemmler wants to do, enforcing the laws (and will of the Council) probably would.

[groinkick]

Yes.  Morgan probably would.  Because he's a warden.  I'm not arguing all the wizards would.  Probably a lot of them wouldn't.

But a warden, tasked with doing things like shutting down what Kemmler wants to do, enforcing the laws (and will of the Council) probably would.

I don't think all or most warden's have Morgan's devoutness.  If Morgan held the same sort of belief in God as he seemed to hold for the Laws, and the White Council I think he probably would be one of the wizard Saint's Jim talked about. 

I think what we should first ask is what is required to become a warden in the first place?  Times were kind of desperate but even someone as young as Carlos became a warden, and he was really young.  Their system of getting wardens can't be too incredibly stringent.  Full fledged wizard,  void of black magic stain, makes an oath to the Council or something and they probably get in.