Author Topic: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake  (Read 20901 times)

Offline Quantus

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2018, 12:34:54 PM »
I agree, as for the part about adding something, that might be possible with careful planning and a direct link of mother to son. (I still think the part of the message from Maggie is a bit far fetched) The Fallen Angel, caught unawares with the gaze, had nothing to defend itself except shutting down the connection. I doubt it'd be able to hide anyway.
That still, I don't see what it had to worry about, probably the sight of it's true self would have left Harry a gibbering wreck (Shagnasty) and ripe for plucking.
It wasnt a Fallen Angel, it was the guardian angel in the lobby of Cpt. Jack's police station.  It would have damaged Harry, and I suspect that it would have been far more sever than Shaggy (who was still pretty damn severe).
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Offline Fcrate

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2018, 10:48:47 PM »
The guardian angel closed Harry's sight, not a soul gaze. I was referring to that scene in the alley with Michael, Shiro and Sanya saving Harry in the end.
Looks like I didn't read your posts thoroughly enough, sorry.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline vultur

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2018, 07:47:18 AM »
That might be true, feels like it fits. The other thing about that whole scene is that I think makes it a particularly strange occurrence is what the Corpsetaker was at that point: was she a normal Ghost, or a disembodied Soul like Harry was?

Disembodied soul, I think... I think the implication is that the Corpsetaker is attempting the same return-from-death trick that Kemmler used multiple times.

Although it might be hard to tell, someone like that probably doesn't have much left that a regular human would recognize as a soul any more...

I think the "southbound train" bit when the Grey Ghost-Corpsetaker is finally taken down clinches the issue, though... if she can go to Hell she must be a real soul, not just an echo-ghost.

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2018, 09:15:31 AM »
I can't remember, is there anything that says its Butters soul that's been trapped waiting to dissipate? I've always figured the act of taking the body would somehow allow the rebirth... or mayhaps a future feeding upon human sacrifice/soul power itself? But I just considered, what if she forces out the spirit/consciousness but the soul stays with the body in a reverse sort of soul steal technique?

Offline Quantus

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2018, 12:08:47 PM »
The guardian angel closed Harry's sight, not a soul gaze. I was referring to that scene in the alley with Michael, Shiro and Sanya saving Harry in the end.
Looks like I didn't read your posts thoroughly enough, sorry.
Probably my fault, I generally consider the Sight and Soulgazes to be two effects of the same ability, since Soulgazes are referred to as Sight (by harry in BR when he saw his mother) and are similarly indelible.  But it's a connection I always make but many do not. 
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2018, 03:18:51 PM »
Probably my fault, I generally consider the Sight and Soulgazes to be two effects of the same ability, since Soulgazes are referred to as Sight (by harry in BR when he saw his mother) and are similarly indelible.  But it's a connection I always make but many do not.
They're definitely related (The RPG rulebook has them as separate powers, but if you take both you get one for free), but distinct.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2018, 12:33:28 PM »
I see the Sight as the CliffNotes version of the Soulgaze.
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Offline LordDresden2

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2018, 03:13:37 AM »
I see the Sight as the CliffNotes version of the Soulgaze.

Probably not a bad comparison.  I tend to see it is 'inside/outside', that is, the Sight lets you see the outside of someone's soul, as when Harry saw Murphy's 'protective/angelic' imagery.  The soulgaze lets you see inside someone's soul.

Offline Kindler

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2018, 05:05:36 PM »
The biggest mistake, I think, was the unnecessarily adversarial relationship between Murphy and Harry, up to halfway through Summer Knight. Murphy's an antagonist for the first few books, and I think it hurt, rather than helped, the story. Thankfully, Jim realized that it was getting old and nixed that conflict with in-universe justification; we actually got to see that shake out on the page, for which I'm grateful. (Too many other authors would just have the character change between books and add a line of dialogue to say, "Yeah, well, I trust you now because of some reasons I have.")

The other thing that was dated, and looks like is now gone: the Two Lines, No Waiting aspect of the early books. Harry's constantly jumping back and forth between cases (until, inevitably, they're revealed to be intimately related) for several books. I think that's gone for the most part, at least since Turn Coat, and I'm happy about it. It lets Jim write more focused, tighter, and effective stories when he's not juggling as much.

I don't think they were necessarily a mistake; they worked okay, but, for example, Skin Game is a much more fluid narrative by comparison.

In terms of the rules of how the Dresden Files Universe operates: honestly, not much I can point to that's particularly inconsistent. Magic A is Magic A, and that's been the case from Storm Front. Jim very clearly sat down and figured out what magic was, how it worked, and what Harry could do with it, and he did that before he wrote a word. The Laws of Magic have indeed shifted (much like what a Steadholder was from Furies of Calderon to Academ's Fury), but they're pretty consistent after Summer Knight.

I can't think of any examples where magic did something it shouldn't have been able to, but maybe my old brain is leaking again. The closest is Bob refusing to listen to Harry in Storm Front, despite Harry having ownership of his Skull. Harry rips up some of his desperately needed cash because Bob was being ornery.

Miscellaneous Others:
1. Harry constantly being broke. That got real old, real fast, at least for me. I'm not saying he should've been rolling in it, but a big chunk of the first several books deals with Harry trying to figure out how to pay his freaking rent. This stopped being an issue from Proven Guilty on, thankfully. I get the purpose; Harry lacked resources, and that made him less effective. But...c'mon.
2. Susan. I didn't like her from the start, and didn't start to like her after she was half-turned. I felt nothing when she died, except a bit of sympathy for Harry—but again, that's not sympathy for Susan. To me, if you show up to a vampire party, you should expect to be eaten. I didn't get their relationship, and I think Jim realized some of that (along with his "Lois Lane" remark about her character). I think if the books had focused more on her character and what she was up to, what she wanted, and her motivation for doing the things she did, I'd probably feel differently. But that would've dragged down the story in other ways, so meh.

I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of criticism, here. There is very little that I can point to in the series as bad. Even the writing for the first few books is, you know, fine, if a bit inexperienced (the best way I can describe Storm Front is that it very much reads like an author's first book). The worst I can say about Storm Front/Fool Moon/Grave Peril is that each scene was essentially, "I went to a place, and a thing happened. I left that place." But he moved past that quickly. And pretty much all of my petty little gripes were "fixed" (from my perspective; others will very likely disagree with me).

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2018, 11:08:12 PM »
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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake

« Reply #68 on: Today at 05:05:36 PM »


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The biggest mistake, I think, was the unnecessarily adversarial relationship between Murphy and Harry, up to halfway through Summer Knight. Murphy's an antagonist for the first few books, and I think it hurt, rather than helped, the story
It was necessary to set up the MM world with Murphy as a main foil, Can't exemplify something in her personality if it wasn't there to begin with. Jim made sure early on it could go either way, hence it's aft GP she really lightens up..

Offline morriswalters

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2018, 08:47:31 PM »
Ghost Story, the whole book.  Although I liked Mort's arc.  The story has been done better,  by Dickens.

Offline huangjimmy108

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Re: In Hindsight, These Story Choices Were a Mistake
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2018, 07:57:43 AM »
I agree that there are serious issues with some of the black magic interpretations.

Apparently, using black magic, even once with a reasonable cause (self defense) like Harry did against Justin had repercussions on Harry, but in Cold Days as he races from the wild hunt and uses magic to blast a hound the hound turns out to be a human - another use of black magic on Harry's part, but we haven't seen any effect from that.

Additionally, things keep getting redefined in the series as we learn more.  Most wizards seem to think it would be fine to kill white court vampires with magic - no black magic twisting them because of it.  But over time, we've learned they are scions (per an angel), human enough to become the winter knight, and probably human enough to wield a sword of faith.  All things that point to them being human enough that it should be black magic to use magic to kill them, but we've never heard that is the case...

Same argument for the half-reds.  They appeared to still be human, with souls and free will, and yet Harry caused the death of thousands of them with the curse, and yet.... no going crazy because of it.

The whole black magic thing appears subjective to the viewpoint of the caster, but then we are told repeatedly that it isn't (both in the books and in WoJ).  It doesn't make sense.

It make sense if we consider one fact. "Nobody's perfect"

Not Harry, and not the white council. In book 1, and during the early parts of the series, Harry is a punk wizard. He is a kid. He knows very little and part of the things he knows is either incomplete or downright wrong. As Harry matures, this misconceptions is corrected thus the changes. And Harry truly matures. Unlike many other Urban fantasies, the DV timeline is more then 15 years with a lot of life changing events and revealed secrets presented.

The white council is also not all knowing. It is confirmed that what the council considered as violation of the 7 laws may not actually be black magic. A lot of them overlapped, but it is definitely not precise representation. In other words, the council's 7 laws is not the Heavenly laws.
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