Love Potion, Huge Violation of 3rd Law?

[Quantus]

That is what Uriel's 7 words in Ghost Story seems to make somewhat hollow. Sure, only Harry can change who he is but Mab knows from experience that if you push hard enough it will happen.

I dont see your meaning with that comparison, Hollow how?  The Shadow (Lasciel) spoke seven words at the right Time and Place to convince Harry that it was inevitable that he would eventually fall, so Uriel spoke seven words at the right Time and Place to convince him of the opposite (and since Harry had already died he was given some leeway to arrange said moment).   

[Arjan]

I dont see your meaning with that comparison, Hollow how?  The Shadow (Lasciel) spoke seven words at the right Time and Place to convince Harry that it was inevitable that he would eventually fall, so Uriel spoke seven words at the right Time and Place to convince him of the opposite (and since Harry had already died he was given some leeway to arrange said moment).   

They were the right words to counter Lasciel and strictly speaking right from Uriels point of view but Mab was not wrong either.

[Paviel]

Not so fast, if the drinker has no clue as to what he or she is drinking, it isn't his or her own decision...

Point of order: Susan didn't know what she was drinking.

[Arjan]

Point of order: Susan didn't know what she was drinking.

You don't catch Uriel that easily. Since when is actually being well informed part of the human free will experience? Sometimes you get the idea that knowing everything leaves you no choice so no free will. It was her choice to drink something from a wizards lab.

[Quantus]

They were the right words to counter Lasciel and strictly speaking right from Uriels point of view but Mab was not wrong either.

How so?  Because all indications Ive seen (text and WOJ) is that she was very much mistaken.  Not a bad thing, she's allowed to misunderstand Human Nature, supposedly that part of why she used Sarissa as a forced-BFF giving her Human Cultural Interaction lessons. 

You don't catch Uriel that easily. Since when is actually being well informed part of the human free will experience? Sometimes you get the idea that knowing everything leaves you no choice so no free will. It was her choice to drink something from a wizards lab.

She was aware that it was a Dangerous place and Chose to go Anyway; Harry was aware that he was hiding the full scope of that danger from her, but did it Anyway out of misguided protectiveness (by his own current evaluation).  Fair Play from a Free Perspective. 

[Arjan]

How so?  Because all indications Ive seen (text and WOJ) is that she was very much mistaken.  Not a bad thing, she's allowed to misunderstand Human Nature, supposedly that part of why she used Sarissa as a forced-BFF giving her Human Cultural Interaction lessons. 

Hat does not stop her from being right for the wrong reasons, she has a lot of experience in changing people or from Uriel’s perspective pushing people to change themselves. For Mab those things are the same and for all intense and purpose they are.

She can change Harry and reading Cold Days she nearly did.

[Quantus]

Hat does not stop her from being right for the wrong reasons, she has a lot of experience in changing people or from Uriel’s perspective pushing people to change themselves. For Mab those things are the same and for all intense and purpose they are.

She can change Harry and reading Cold Days she nearly did.

She can TRY.  That was the whole point, she will always have the chance to Fail, despite what Harry was led to believe.  She can Push him, torture and con him, but only he can Choose to Change himself, she cant do it for him. 

[Arjan]

She can try is very differen from she can not.

[Paviel]

You either do, or do not. There is no try.

[Arjan]

You either do, or do not. There is no try.

People try to do things all the time and sometimes they succeed. If you only do what you know you can do you will never succeed in something new.

[peregrine]

You either do, or do not. There is no try.

There is absolutely try.  Trying is required for doing.  And sometimes not doing.  But there is always try.

[Wizard Sibelis]

There is absolutely try.  Trying is required for doing.  And sometimes not doing.  But there is always try.

Yea, that 'not try' bull is just a zen paradox to make you have an epiphany of intention. It has to be taken in the right context.

[groinkick]

So how would people feel about a truth potion?  Would that violate the laws?

[Arjan]

So how would people feel about a truth potion?  Would that violate the laws?

Luccio used a truth spell in dead beat to check if Harry was lying or not. It probably depends on what it exactly does and how.

[groinkick]

Luccio used a truth spell in dead beat to check if Harry was lying or not. It probably depends on what it exactly does and how.

Wizards seem to have different things that they excel at.  Harry is apparently one of the best in the world at constructing magical stuff for example, or Lucio being the only one to make swords that can break shields.  It would be cool to see a wizard who's specialty was potions.  Harry's potion that turned him into the wind was actually pretty cool.  I'd imagine a wizard who's specialty, and passion was potions could do some pretty cool things.