The 5 gods of Lovecraft

[jonas]

.... Ya'll keep annoying me by ignoring GK as Nyarla ima have to strong arm you into listening. Let's see, soul of the outer gods... position as Gatekeeper, compared to Warden, if you look it up, is the same job duty, even in the dictionary they are the same actually

Warden 12 A gatekeeper

Gatekeeper 2 guardian; monitor:

GK is obviously a previous version of the Odin/Merlin/Harry rotation right? Do we all agree on that much btw?
GK's appearance is actually a mantle from when he has human/mortal, It's the gooey center that let Uriel transubstantiate. Some proof is in the scaring on his face, a wizard would have healed over the centuries until it was faint but Harry describes it as deep. But also why he's connected to time and knowing the future, He's on a similarly Outside time existence, in fact, quite literally parts of him are beyond time, the Old God's part. It's why he see's time differently and see's future events.... and why he stays out of it mostly except like Uriel or even Odin, to enable a choice.
Back to the Soul of the Old Gods, he's known for having thousands of forms, that's why his mortal form is his usual Mantle when he makes an appearance, when reality is unbalanced he's the first thing to manifest that imbalance. He's their soul because like with the fae mantles his soul is attached to their spirit, he's the host. His timeline ended opposite Merlins, instead of creating a prison by sacrificing his soulfire into a construct(look at DR again... Death Blessing indeed) he contained them within himself.(a prison is made in each rendition of reality, slightly different, but similar. Hades, Hell, DR, Gatekeeper.....)The darkness within the Joy he also contains, just like DR, Controlling the Ugly with the Beauty. It's why he can't step on DR, he's not from here and DR remembers this.(there's a lot more to that but that's for believers anyway lol)
More stuff, someone go ahead and argue this one please, I'd love proving what I know on this one....

*OP, the 5 LC gods would easily align with the 5 main celestial Bodies in Greek astrology, the 5 epochs in Mesoamerican mythology, ect. So... mayhaps?

[groinkick]

.... Ya'll keep annoying me by ignoring GK as Nyarla ima have to strong arm you into listening. Let's see, soul of the outer gods... position as Gatekeeper, compared to Warden, if you look it up, is the same job duty, even in the dictionary they are the same actually GK is obviously a previous version of the Odin/Merlin/Harry rotation right? Do we all agree on that much btw?
GK's appearance is actually a mantle from when he has human/mortal, It's the gooey center that let Uriel transubstantiate. Some proof is in the scaring on his face, a wizard would have healed over the centuries until it was faint but Harry describes it as deep. But also why he's connected to time and knowing the future, He's on a similarly Outside time existence, in fact, quite literally parts of him are beyond time, the Old God's part. It's why he see's time differently and see's future events.... and why he stays out of it mostly except like Uriel or even Odin, to enable a choice.
Back to the Soul of the Old Gods, he's known for having thousands of forms, that's why his mortal form is his usual Mantle when he makes an appearance, when reality is unbalanced he's the first thing to manifest that imbalance. He's their soul because like with the fae mantles his soul is attached to their spirit, he's the host. His timeline ended opposite Merlins, instead of creating a prison by sacrificing his soulfire into a construct(look at DR again... Death Blessing indeed) he contained them within himself.(a prison is made in each rendition of reality, slightly different, but similar. Hades, Hell, DR, Gatekeeper.....)The darkness within the Joy he also contains, just like DR, Controlling the Ugly with the Beauty. It's why he can't step on DR, he's not from here and DR remembers this.(there's a lot more to that but that's for believers anyway lol)
More stuff, someone go ahead and argue this one please, I'd love proving what I know on this one....

Well here is the problem.  Nyarlathotep could destroy all of humanity if it chose.  Why doesn't it?  Because it enjoys tormenting humans so much.  It enjoys the pain, and suffering it can cause on the human toys.  In what way is the Gatekeeper like that?

[jonas]

Well here is the problem.  Nyarlathotep could destroy all of humanity if it chose.  Why doesn't it?  Because it enjoys tormenting humans so much.  It enjoys the pain, and suffering it can cause on the human toys.  In what way is the Gatekeeper like that?

He's not, that's not his mask, But if reality were to be unbalanced enough he'd change forms... Jim's not going that way with his earthly rep, the same way Supernatural went way different with Uriel.
*think about if Mab and Titania's mantles were in one person, but one was the container for the other, Summer power balancing Winter directly through willpower only, that's GK. he didn't split to become balanced in reality, he became whole to balance it.

[groinkick]

He's not, that's not his mask, But if reality were to be unbalanced enough he'd change forms... Jim's not going that way with his earthly rep, the same way Supernatural went way different with Uriel.
*think about if Mab and Titania's mantles were in one person, but one was the container for the other, Summer power balancing Winter directly through willpower only, that's GK. he didn't split to become balanced in reality, he became whole to balance it.

I don't know...  I doubt Mother Winter, or Mab would trust someone like that with the Outer gates.

[jonas]

I don't know...  I doubt Mother Winter, or Mab would trust someone like that with the Outer gates.

Mother Winter!? The old Crone who want's to eat baby marrow? The necessary part of the balance of reality? That MW? Or that crazy Mab chick who want's to subsume the world and needs a check in reality?

[Foxed]

Nyarlathotep would open the gate on a whim. For a laugh.

Also, Gatekeeper if officially the guy who killed Abdul Alhazred (which, um, the proper name would be Abd'Al-Hazred).

[jonas]

Nyarlathotep would open the gate on a whim. For a laugh.

He did open up reality, that's how he became the gatekeeper.

Also, Gatekeeper if officially the guy who killed Abdul Alhazred (which, um, the proper name would be Abd'Al-Hazred).

Yea and the father of the previous GK was Dante Alighieri and that was wrote in... what 1300's and yet GK was around for thousands of years before that... So something is a Little Fishy over here too Black Cat guys...

(click to show/hide)

Course I have the answer for such craziness in the form of Epoch's/Aeon's of existence, mythological 'history' and repeating histories, but I digress...

[groinkick]

He did open up reality, that's how he became the gatekeeper.

Nyarlathotep  is a bad guy.  Do you think Gatekeeper is as well?

[Griffyn612]

Mordite could be manifested bits of
Ialdagorth.

Ialdagorth (The Dark Devourer) is both the cousin and servant of Azathoth, appearing as a black, shapeless, malevolent mist. The sight of such a fiend is unsettling if not traumatizing.

The physical description is pretty close, and "Dark Devourer" is apt for deathstone.  Ivy even says, "The duel will end when it has devoured one of you.”  Not to mention mordite in Turn Coat is called a "mistfiend".

[groinkick]

Mordite could be manifested bits of
Ialdagorth.The physical description is pretty close, and "Dark Devourer" is apt for deathstone.  Ivy even says, "The duel will end when it has devoured one of you.”  Not to mention mordite in Turn Coat is called a "mistfiend".

Good call!  Looks like Jim isn't using it as a single Outer god but took the idea of it and made it more like a destructive substance/creature/thing that can be acquired.

[peregrine]

The mistfiend is not just mordite, but rather some sort of spirit/creature connected to and animating the mordite.  While Ivy's mordite thing was simply enchanted to be affected by Will, but otherwise inanimate and non-sentient.

Not to really argue against the main premise, just clarifying that they're two different things.

[groinkick]

The mistfiend is not just mordite, but rather some sort of spirit/creature connected to and animating the mordite.  While Ivy's mordite thing was simply enchanted to be affected by Will, but otherwise inanimate and non-sentient.

Not to really argue against the main premise, just clarifying that they're two different things.

According to the interwebs:

Mordite or Deathstone, is congealed antilife not of our World. It's first seen in Death Masks. In Death Masks, Harry Dresden describes it as congealed antilife, "a chip would make nuclear waste look like second hand smoke. Not from our reality, it's from Outside and sensitive to applied will.

[peregrine]

I'd have to double check the book, but I'm pretty sure the "sensitive to applied will" was an extra add-on for the purposes of the duel.

[jonas]

Nyarlathotep  is a bad guy.  Do you think Gatekeeper is as well?

Heinrich Kemmler is a bad guy... except Harry is his 'light' version and manifest's his proper version through the Walkers manifesting in response.... Hwwb4's cloak, made from sackcloth strips of Harry's duster which Molly spread around the fear for, is the exact same enspellment found upon Kemmlers robes proper...

Cloak of Mists and Shadows: Kemmler is surrounded by a dark cloak that swirls and twists with a life of its own.

The antichrist is a bad guy, except Harry is going to manifest the second coming with Marcone picking up his more mundane and evilish aspects, is Harry evil? Predications of limitations based on perspective are of little value, nothing in our own mythology of Mab implies the greater good she serves in the DF or the reasonings then behind their actions and motivations are anything but their nature... Is Mab 'evil'? Is Chaos itself? Cause that's what your asking anyway. Can an uncarved block contain 'evil'? Naturally, the uncarved block represents every possibility all at once, every shape and form it can be shaped into, but despite containing these countless, unfathomable possibilities, NONE of them define the block itself. Wuji, no shape, no form, no change, the goal of the outsiders... is and uncarved block for reality itself. GK contains that idea as its representation, and they cannot gainsay it so long as he exists... Same thing with the Walkers trying to kill or corrupt their current formations in the light.

[Griffyn612]

The mistfiend is not just mordite, but rather some sort of spirit/creature connected to and animating the mordite.  While Ivy's mordite thing was simply enchanted to be affected by Will, but otherwise inanimate and non-sentient.

Not to really argue against the main premise, just clarifying that they're two different things.

Good point.  I'll still go with the idea that the congealed anti-life could be physical manifestation of Ialdagorth, in the sense that it's an aspect or unconscious avatar of the being itself. 

I do find it interesting that a "mistfiend" (I'm going to assume Langtry knows what he's talking about) is compatible with mordite, and able to be in contact with it without dying.  It must be a creature that has no physical form, and isn't alive, but still has a consciousness and the ability to manifest a "form" that looks like a smokey mist.

Makes me wonder about its origins.