Fistful of Warlocks -- Law Notes

[Mr. Death]

So I got Brief Cases the other day, and when Luccio comes upon the necromancer card game, she briefly considers lighting them all on fire.

She dismisses the idea because the fire would probably burn the place down and the unspoken rule against using magic in front of civilians.

She does not, however, take into account that torching four men with magical fire would be breaking the First Law of Magic.

Harry has mentioned before a "self defense" clause, but I think this is the first time we have someone who is (or will be) a real authority on the laws and how they're administered considering using magic to kill.

What think y'all?

[raidem]

Maybe since they are necromancers it doesn't count?


I'm kidding.

[Slowpool]

So I got Brief Cases the other day, and when Luccio comes upon the necromancer card game, she briefly considers lighting them all on fire.

She dismisses the idea because the fire would probably burn the place down and the unspoken rule against using magic in front of civilians.

She does not, however, take into account that torching four men with magical fire would be breaking the First Law of Magic.

Harry has mentioned before a "self defense" clause, but I think this is the first time we have someone who is (or will be) a real authority on the laws and how they're administered considering using magic to kill.

What think y'all?

  Something I've never been clear on perhaps; when a Warden has to ice a warlock, does using magic against them still count as black magic?  Is that why they specifically have to finish the job with the sword?  It makes sense, in a technical way, but I can't remember anything specific on the matter.

[peregrine]

That was always my understanding, supported by some stuff Jim said about how they used magic to bind and neutralize their enemy but the actual execution was with the sword.

Though others do disagree with that view.

[groinkick]

That was always my understanding, supported by some stuff Jim said about how they used magic to bind and neutralize their enemy but the actual execution was with the sword.

Though others do disagree with that view.

How it's supposed to happen....  Probably doesn't always work out that way though.  They do have plausible deniability lol...  When talking about lighting them on fire it would probably be to neutralize them as you said, and then kill them with her sword as they roll around on the ground screaming in pain from the fire.

[LordDresden2]

How it's supposed to happen....  Probably doesn't always work out that way though.  They do have plausible deniability lol...  When talking about lighting them on fire it would probably be to neutralize them as you said, and then kill them with her sword as they roll around on the ground screaming in pain from the fire.

That might well be.  JB once commented that one reason Justin trained Harry and Elaine with pain was that he had in mind them eventually fighting Wardens, and JB says he knew that people fighting Wardens have to be hardened to have a chance, because the Wardens don't play around.

[groinkick]

That might well be.  JB once commented that one reason Justin trained Harry and Elaine with pain was that he had in mind them eventually fighting Wardens, and JB says he knew that people fighting Wardens have to be hardened to have a chance, because the Wardens don't play around.

Yeah like when Harry was facing Morgan who thought Harry had killed Lucio...  Think he said something like Morgan would use earth magic to horribly mangle him without killing him, and then use the sword to finish him.

[forumghost]

I mean they didn't even use lethal magic against big daddy Kemmler.

If the guy that took the entire council to fight, the guy that Mab thought was a monster and a madman, doesn't warrant it, I doubt any random schmo is going to pass the mustard.

Some People just want to claim that the Council doesn't practice what it preaches because they want more reasons to pretend they're out-and-out badguys

[Snark Knight]

Possibly in the 1800's the Council took a bit more of a relaxed attitude toward igniting a fire with magic and letting it spread mundanely to kill warlocks. WOJ was that still counts in the universal / spiritual corruption sense, but maybe it doesn't in the Council's legal sense. We know some of their laws that don't pertain to abusing mortals (specifically, against time travel and seeking knowledge of the Outsiders) are because those things are really bad ideas rather than because they're addictive and cause gibbering insanity. Maybe it works the other way for some things too.

[WereElephant]

I mean they didn't even use lethal magic against big daddy Kemmler.

Do we know that for certain?

[Mr. Death]

Another thing to point out is that this is early in Luccio's career, well before she made the swords standard issue -- in fact, she seems to be using a prototype, saying that she had to spend most of the evening imbuing her sword with a spell to cut through enchantment.

[peregrine]

Other possibility also, the interpretation of the Laws may have changed between then and now.

I don't think it's likely, given how relatively stagnant the White Council seems to be, but a possibility.

[groinkick]

Other possibility also, the interpretation of the Laws may have changed between then and now.

I don't think it's likely, given how relatively stagnant the White Council seems to be, but a possibility.

It could also be a sign that she has in fact killed with magic, and that her thinking about it is an example of how dark magic becomes easier and easier to use hence it being banned.  Harry showed those tendencies and he at the time had only killed Justin.

[LordDresden2]

Do we know that for certain?

JB said at one point that they used magic to incapacitate Kemmler, at the final throw-down, and then executed him with swords.  And a gun.  And a noose.  Etc.  Apparently they killed him over and over until he stayed down.

[KurtinStGeorge]

How it's supposed to happen....  Probably doesn't always work out that way though.  They do have plausible deniability lol...  When talking about lighting them on fire it would probably be to neutralize them as you said, and then kill them with her sword as they roll around on the ground screaming in pain from the fire.

You explanation seems reasonable, but kind of iffy.  I've seen (truly gruesome) WW2 combat footage of U.S. Marines using a flamethrower in an area of heavy, dry growth (tall dry grass I think) and seconds later a Japanese soldier engulfed in flames stumbles forward several yards out of the burning grass and falls over dead.  Luccio doesn't appear to think she might kill someone before she could use the sword.  I would have preferred if Luccio had said she could use fire to incapacite the necromancers and then finish them off with something non-magical.  I suspect Jim forgot about the specifics of the Laws of magic.