WAG.... Murphy has moved on

[Arjan]

A man tries to kill my daughter better pray to God for mercy. I won't have any. I'll just kill him. If he succeeded however, that's where torture comes in.
Maybe that's just me, but I doubt anyone would do any less if their children were threatened, and they had the ability to do something about it.

Very human and completely understandable but it is not the mentality big states are build on, it is the mentality that causes bleud feuds and wars between families. It can cause anarchy.

So when states rise they want to monopolize violence. Crime becomes not just a crime against another person but a crime against the state and because christianity and other religions have always been a good pilars of the state it becomes a crime against god. We have to forgive each other to keep the peace and punishment is done by the god sanctioned state or if that fails by god himself after you die.

That is why when someone breaks into your home you are supposed to call the police and not kill them on sight. I know it can be difficult but that is what you are supposed to do

[Mira]

That's not the point of my argument: my point is everyone has a breaking point where even faith isn't enough. He didn't just let "faith" guide him in The Warrior and believe God will protect Alicia.

So I repeat, everyone has a breaking point, including Michael, where gosh they might make a mistake. I mean, Harry does. Repeatedly.

   Yes, everyone does, but if you are entrusted with what Michael was, you handle it, no matter how hard, you handle it...  If Uriel and his Boss were not sure of that, Michael would never have been entrusted with such an important thing no matter how vital the mission. 

[groinkick]

   Yes, everyone does, but if you are entrusted with what Michael was, you handle it, no matter how hard, you handle it...  If Uriel and his Boss were not sure of that, Michael would never have been entrusted with such an important thing no matter how vital the mission.

Comes down to Choice.  They had trust in Michael, but there was still a chance he could have messed up.

[Fcrate]

That is why when someone breaks into your home you are supposed to call the police and not kill them on sight. I know it can be difficult but that is what you are supposed to do

Somehow I don't see any character of DF that would do that. Much less Michael the fist of God himself.
Oh, and isn't God supposed to help those who help themselves? So you take action, lift that baseball bat (or preferably a 12 guage shotgun) against the intruder, rest assured that you're doing the right thing. By God, if not by Law.

[Mira]

Comes down to Choice.  They had trust in Michael, but there was still a chance he could have messed up.

Yes, he is human, but Uriel and his Boss had faith in Michael..

[peregrine]

Oh, and isn't God supposed to help those who help themselves? So you take action, lift that baseball bat (or preferably a 12 guage shotgun) against the intruder, rest assured that you're doing the right thing. By God, if not by Law.

"God helps those who help themselves" is in no way part of the Bible.

"'Vengeance is mine, I will repay,' saith the Lord" IS however.

[Arjan]

Somehow I don't see any character of DF that would do that. Much less Michael the fist of God himself.
Oh, and isn't God supposed to help those who help themselves? So you take action, lift that baseball bat (or preferably a 12 guage shotgun) against the intruder, rest assured that you're doing the right thing. By God, if not by Law.

Actually no. You are probably more at home with old Norse paganism or something like that.

There is some truth in "Christianity is for sheep" and religions for sheep came up with stronger states and bigger populations, high populations of wolves are unmanageable.

But if central government breaks down, becomes weak or widely discredited being a sheep makes you an easy prey, it does not work anymore. people will fall back to some form of honor culture which is both about showing power and trying not to provoke people.

But if Christianity is too deeply entrenched going back to old Norse paganism is not an option. In a society without a state church you can however invent your own Christianity and that is widely done.

[Kindler]

Ehh...the duty to call the police instead of handling it yourself first is different from state to state. Stand Your Ground laws and Castle Doctrine states offer various protections to those defending their property, not just their lives.

Anyway:

A man tries to kill my daughter better pray to God for mercy. I won't have any. I'll just kill him. If he succeeded however, that's where torture comes in.
Maybe that's just me, but I doubt anyone would do any less if their children were threatened, and they had the ability to do something about it.

They'd see the path of destruction between me and them from space.

At the end of Skin Game, Michael didn't use Uriel's Grace even though he knew that Nic and company were going after his family. I guess one could argue that since he suddenly had trouble walking that the Grace had gone back to Uriel, but he fought like a mortal, so I doubt that it had. 

No, I'm pretty certain Uriel was still mortal; didn't he get a nosebleed or something during the Carpenter House fight? Regardless, Michael had the opportunity and motive to abuse Uriel's Grace, but didn't. Though, at that point, I think he was putting his faith in Harry, too, not just TWG.

[raidem]

Right now, there seems to be only one character that can generate so much discussion. It is Murphy. I mean right now, we are on 20 pages of Murphy discussion.  I just looked briefly through the forums on the first few pages, nothing comes close. 


The one character that Jim has us most interested in it seems is Murphy.

[peregrine]

Well, there's interested in, and then there's passionate about (seeing killed off).

[Arjan]

Ehh...the duty to call the police instead of handling it yourself first is different from state to state. Stand Your Ground laws and Castle Doctrine states offer various protections to those defending their property, not just their lives.

Human law makes concessions to human nature, public opinion and practical reasoning, religious law often does not and asks for more.

[groinkick]

Right now, there seems to be only one character that can generate so much discussion. It is Murphy. I mean right now, we are on 20 pages of Murphy discussion.  I just looked briefly through the forums on the first few pages, nothing comes close. 


The one character that Jim has us most interested in it seems is Murphy.

lol one reason I started it :-x...  One thing I do love about discussions like this is it started as  Murphy theory and morphed into a discussion about Michael.  Kinda cool

[Mira]

No, I'm pretty certain Uriel was still mortal; didn't he get a nosebleed or something during the Carpenter House fight? Regardless, Michael had the opportunity and motive to abuse Uriel's Grace, but didn't. Though, at that point, I think he was putting his faith in Harry, too, not just TWG.

Yeah, he was putting his faith in Harry, and the idea that the Almighty has Harry's back..

lol one reason I started it :-x...  One thing I do love about discussions like this is it started as  Murphy theory and morphed into a discussion about Michael.  Kinda cool

Well, Michael is Harry's male Murphy....

[raidem]

Michael got brought up in part because of him wielding uriels Grace.

[groinkick]

Michael got brought up in part because of him wielding uriels Grace.

Yeah.  You know what's funny.  When Murphy made her error against Nicodemus, he in turn error'd against the Sword.  He took the Sword, and broke it on the ground because he didn't have Faith the Sword could work without the blade.  The correct way is to unmake the Sword by killing an innocent with it.